#264 Bernie Kosar

Bernie Kosar [00:00:00]:
If you run from a challenge now, you're going to run from a challenge your whole life. It's better to go for it, focus, and fail than to go your whole life and die from within with the seed of doubt that you didn't know whether you could have done it or not. It's almost like that now, you know, that seed of always going for it, always trying, always trying. You never lose, the clock just runs out. So don't let the clock run out. Just never stop trying.

 

Jeffrey Stern [00:00:31]:
Bernie Kosar has spent his life figuring out a way. As a kid born and raised in Youngstown, Ohio with an improbable dream, to becoming the quarterback of the team that he grew up loving, to persisting through extraordinary adversity far beyond the football field. Known and beloved as the legendary quarterback of the Cleveland Browns, Bernie's story does extend far beyond football. And in this vulnerable conversation, Bernie and I reflect on many of those experiences that shaped him in his life. The resilience, the fear of failure, the pain, the tough love, and the relentless belief that somehow, some way, you keep going. We explore his journey through addiction and through bankruptcy, business and entrepreneurship, the health challenges that nearly took his life, and the perspective that he carries with him today. A deep sense of gratitude for another chance at life, optimism about what lies ahead, and an enduring belief in Ohio and what can still be built here. So please enjoy this amazing conversation with Bernie Kosar.

 

Speaker C [00:01:37]:
Lay of the Land is brought to you and is proudly sponsored by Roundstone Insurance. Headquartered in Rocky River, Ohio, Roundstone shares Lay of the Land's same passion for bold ideas and lasting impact from our community's entrepreneurs, innovators, and leaders. Since 2005, Roundstone has pioneered a self-funded captive health insurance model that delivers robust savings for small and medium-sized businesses. They are part of the solution to rising healthcare costs, helping employers offer affordable, high-quality care while driving job creation and economic growth throughout Northeast Ohio. Like many of the voices featured on Lay of the Land, including Roundstone's founder and CEO, Mike Schroeder, Roundstone believes entrepreneurship, innovation, and community to be the cornerstones of progress. To learn more about how Roundstone is transforming employee health benefits by empowering employers to save thousands in per-employee, per-year healthcare costs, Please visit roundstoneinsurance.com. Roundstone Insurance, built for entrepreneurs, backed by innovation, committed to Cleveland.

 

Speaker D [00:02:40]:
So Bernie, when you and I met, I got to know you as a person before I got to know you as Bernie Kosar, legendary quarterback of the Browns, Cleveland, Ohio hero. And I feel it's sort of perhaps as much as as you, a miracle that we're here right now to have this conversation and kind of wanted to just start from a place of gratitude that you're here, that we can talk about this journey that you've been on. But just wanted to start by expressing how grateful I am that you're here.

 

Bernie Kosar [00:03:15]:
Well, thank you, Jeffrey. It's an honor to be here. And as we were kind of joking and as I was kind of coming in today, being a little bit reflective and stuff as a guy who's just literally coming in from my doctor's appointment. Last week was my 10-month anniversary of the transplant, and I think back to that journey over the last couple years, and not because of meeting you and The Ohio Fund, but really me meeting The Ohio Fund goes back about 2, 2 and a half years.

 

Speaker D [00:03:47]:
Yeah.

 

Bernie Kosar [00:03:48]:
Which is kind of about when the reality of the, the situation from a health situation I was going through was happening. And I'm not fishing for a compliment, I'm not a complete egotist, 10 months post this transplant, but to be able to sit here this morning and to be able to look so much better. And then for you, who's really only known me the last 2 and a half years when I was so challenged and stuff, Yeah. I was kind of looking forward again, as a little bit of an egotist, to come here today and be able to sit here and talk to you actually feeling good when so many of the— over the last couple years my health was so off.

 

Jeffrey Stern [00:04:29]:
Yeah.

 

Bernie Kosar [00:04:29]:
That to be able to be in some of the situations that you and me were in, thanks for still liking me. Thanks for inviting me down to be here today because literally being off from a health perspective like I was the last couple of years. And then to be here today, it's truly a blessing.

 

Speaker D [00:04:48]:
No, it really is. And you do look great. And it is awesome just to have you here feeling good. So like I mentioned, getting to know you first as a person before the reputation that preceded you, I really just had our interactions to go by. And it was, it was always clear to me just from being with you that you sort of exuded this optimism about life, a passion for everything that you were working on, and really a relentless persistence through adversity. And then layering in bits of the reputation that do precede you and understanding who you actually are and what this journey is that you've been on and what you've accomplished, it became clear to me, and talking to folks about you as well, I mean, you've really always had this— high sense of agency and fire within you. Where does that fire come from?

 

Bernie Kosar [00:05:41]:
Well, thank you. Thank you for that. Growing up in Youngstown, and I've talked a lot about being a little boy in Youngstown, almost like it is a little bit now and over the last 5 or 10 years, like it was in the 1970s, the manufacturing jobs weren't there. As a little boy and stuff, You really aspire to be successful, and sports was kind of— it definitely was a deviation from kind of the reality of what you were going through. And then it became clear that that was kind of your only kind of chance to better yourself and get out and stuff. So I kind of thought here, as I sit here as a 62-year-old, that is that little 6, 7, 8-year-old boy that life's goal was, hey, to be able to better yourself, take care of your family, and play sports. You know, whether it was baseball, basketball, football, and I was blessed to be able to be pretty good in all of them, but that was really your ticket out. And I thought that for me, being able to be the quarterback of your boyhood team, the Cleveland Browns, was really your life goal and stuff.

 

Bernie Kosar [00:06:49]:
I didn't really know, Jeffrey, that that was probably the impetus. In football, you always hear Hey, it teaches you to get off the ground, you know, never give up. You know, when you get hit, get up and stuff. And those kind of phrases and stuff, yeah, they seem corny at times. I didn't know that those really laid the seed for me to really show some of that resiliency that I really need as I get into the 4th quarter of my life, you know. And that kind of Youngstown, Northeast Ohio.

 

Speaker D [00:07:22]:
Yeah.

 

Bernie Kosar [00:07:23]:
almost desperation. Yeah, I'll say toughness and resiliency, but it was almost desperation not to want to fail and to be tough and stuff. It taught you that. And I didn't know that that almost prepared me. It really did prepare me in this football journey for, for what I had to go through the last couple of years. And people go, hey, would you have— do you regret doing it? Do you regret playing football? Do you regret some of the decisions you made? I absolutely You know, yeah, you'd want some back. I really think that God spiritually put me in, um, in, in this spot. Jimmy Johnson used to have a phrase he used to say to us before we went out to play every game.

 

Bernie Kosar [00:08:02]:
I'm super blessed to be the only guy to have played with Jimmy Johnson in all 3 places: University of Miami.

 

Speaker D [00:08:08]:
Yep.

 

Bernie Kosar [00:08:09]:
Dallas Cowboys Super Bowl and the Dolphins and stuff. But he'd say, somehow, some way, figure out a way to make a play. To win the game. I didn't know that that kind of phrase kind of laid within me that somehow, some way, I was going to figure out a way to kind of naturally beat some of these things that are going on health and wellness-wise with me. So if I didn't get through and have some of these things going on, I think this pain pushes you to either quit or like football, football really taught me. Get off the ground, and in the words of Jimmie Johnson, somehow, someway, figure out a way to get past it.

 

Jeffrey Stern [00:08:50]:
Yeah.

 

Speaker D [00:08:50]:
No, it's amazing. I think a lot of us maybe had had the childhood dream of one day playing for the team that you grew up loving. At what point do you figure out that it's not just a dream and that it's something that you can— not just a path you could traverse, but one that you've sort of famously engineered as a reality for yourself?

 

Bernie Kosar [00:09:12]:
Well, thanks for asking it like that. I think back to like 1980, where here I am, a sophomore, a sophomore in high school, Boardman High School, Youngstown, Ohio, and my best friend's dad got tickets to go to the Brown Steelers game. Here I am, a sophomore, going to the Brown Steelers in high school, 1980. And the Browns had never won in Three Rivers, and I barely got enough money to go to the game, go to go watch. They lose again there in Three Rivers. I'm a sophomore. I hadn't even played a high school varsity football game yet. And here I am as a little boy aspiring to that.

 

Bernie Kosar [00:09:51]:
And then literally 5 years later, to have graduated high school, went to college, won the national championship. graduated college and then to all the way 5 years, 6 years later, being playing as the Browns starting quarterback. It really is a Disney World, you know, type experience for that. But that type of, that type of kind of Disney experience and stuff kind of, kind of gave me a— it was kind of born out of out of watching things happen in our house in the '70s. You know, when the mills all closed in the late '70s and the fear, pain, crying, you know, of your mom and your dad, and your dad trying to act like it's going good, but it's really not. And you really feel as the oldest son an obligation to kind of take care of. Yeah, you know, your family and stuff. And again, hadn't come across Jimmy Johnson yet, but in the words of Jimmy Johnson, somehow, some way, figure out a way to make a play to win the game.

 

Bernie Kosar [00:11:03]:
Or in the last few years, I've been trying to figure out a way bluntly to stay alive, now help people. But then as a little boy, high school boy, it's somehow, some way, figure out a way to take care of your family.

 

Jeffrey Stern [00:11:15]:
Yeah.

 

Bernie Kosar [00:11:16]:
You know, as a scarred Catholic growing up in Youngstown, you think about You're kind of told that you're supposed to take care of your family, that you're going straight to hell if you don't, and that— so that kind of imprint is put on you. So in the words of Jimmy, somehow, some way, you want to figure out how to make things at peace for your family. So that quickly, somehow, some way, getting through school, Getting an education, and then being back there 5, 6 years later to actually break that jinx and be the first quarterback to— Browns quarterback to win at Three Rivers. It's super cool and humbling.

 

Speaker D [00:11:58]:
Yeah. No, it is incredible. And as a New Yorker who grew up not really watching sports, and again, just getting to know you as a person before I understood, you know, you as a quarterback, familiarizing myself with your athletic past, they would describe you as unconventionally athletic, which, euphemism aside, I think is funny because you're out there just beating people, outworking people, outsmarting people. Had you thought about underrated as an advantage, like a competitive advantage?

 

Bernie Kosar [00:12:35]:
I don't know if underrated, I looked at it as a competitive advantage. I looked at it more as kind of when you grow up and the mills are closed and you kind of don't know what your future lies for you, it's almost a desperation, a fear of failure. People say, hey, did you love winning the national championship? Did you love winning the games? Did you love winning the Super Bowl? Yeah, I sit here, I want to say yes, and almost all of, if you go back, of my answers over the last 4 or 5 decades would be yes to that. But in reality, as an old man sitting here, the reality is, yeah, you enjoyed it, but really it was the fear of failure and not wanting to be it, and almost a relief factor in those things. So to me, you're almost always striving, striving to get better. and not really overly getting satisfied.

 

Speaker D [00:13:37]:
Yeah.

 

Bernie Kosar [00:13:37]:
And I kind of wish, you know, and if people are listening, I don't say that as a badge of honor. It's sometimes from a happiness perspective. And I'm not— this is not a woe is me, but from a mental health perspective, I'm not sure that's the most healthiest perspective to not be able to overly sit back and enjoy. But to be good in football, you don't sit back and enjoy, and you don't— in a football game, you'll have 65, 70 plays. In that 70-play game, you may have 67 of them that you do perfectly, and then you obsess on the 2 or 3 that you didn't. And that's almost now like in our business space right now.

 

Jeffrey Stern [00:14:23]:
Yeah.

 

Bernie Kosar [00:14:24]:
You know, it's— well, you have 95% greatness, which is almost unrealistic to keep obtaining, yet you think about the 1 or 2 of that. That is what makes you great at times, but it is sometimes what challenges people in society from a mental health perspective and a happiness perspective. So that equation, I'm not sure I've gotten right at times in my life.

 

Speaker D [00:14:51]:
It is a parallel I wanted to draw. We can weave in Yeah. Some of the business aspect to this, but I always think there's sort of a fascinating parallel between athletes and entrepreneurs in kind of their singular focus and how excellence is sort of perceived as your tolerance for pain. And pain in a lot of ways is the prerequisite for success and winning and just this singular motivation to solve the problem, to get the job done. and just kind of the kindred spirit of athletes and founders.

 

Bernie Kosar [00:15:27]:
Yeah, to that, and when I was younger and when I was doing interviews like this trying to pretend to be cool and get a good answer out and stuff, you would assimilate the pain in that to the physical pain, which is absolutely there, and then how it fits and toughens you up to do things and to show up on time, on schedule, and be prepared to produce and do your best and stuff, and the physical side, absolutely does prepare you for it and at times now limit you and stuff. But it really, really— the life lesson that I've learned and what sports is and where it does— could crumble you and does crumble a lot of people. And it's a good— I don't know how the timing of our podcast is going to be, but a good assimilation and analogy as to what happened and what is happening with the Browns right now. In the quarterback situation, yeah, we'll talk about the pain from a physical standpoint, but, you know, as men, we're told men don't cry, men don't have feelings, men don't show emotion, men don't have that bothering us. So wrong, okay? And it's so wrong. And as a quarterback and as a man, as a steelworker, tough guy town, you know, to say that you have mental health issues, that you don't always have the answers, Yeah. that that stuff is— that does bother you. It's not easy to admit, almost impossible to admit.

 

Bernie Kosar [00:16:55]:
You definitely can't admit that if you want to lead 52 guys in an NFL locker room. So how do you really balance all of that right now? It's a really tricky dynamic. And you're seeing that— you're seeing that kind of play out in the Browns— the Browns quarterback room in particular right now with that. And that mental side of it really, really does affect you and it can crumble you. And, and where I do believe it prepares you for the entrepreneurial side of what we're doing now, and even how you and me have met and how awesome our relationship has been in 2 and a half years, 2 years really, um, on the Ohio Fund. And if it was just a cash-on-cash business decision here, the ROI on really funding things in June of last year and to be sitting here today loving life with, you know, how that's happened and stuff. But pulling the trigger, you know, and when you play football as athletes and you get beaten up physically, yeah, it's one thing. But when you get beaten up on the phone and in the press right now, that's a whole other.

 

Speaker D [00:18:06]:
Yeah.

 

Bernie Kosar [00:18:07]:
And it's kind of— I look at you like kind of like the The pro athlete age, okay, where you got to learn to pull the trigger and you get beaten in stuff like this at that. So by my age now, you've either crumbled on it, but odds are it's probably calloused you and toughened you up. In the words of Jimmie Johnson, again, somehow, some way, you figure out a way to make a play and you could still make a decision. And that's it, like pulling the trigger. You know, like, we all want to say, I'm always right, I never made a mistake. Wrong. I'll make mistakes. I've made them.

 

Bernie Kosar [00:18:43]:
Okay, I'll make some in the future going forward. Try to limit them, but I'm not afraid to swing the bat.

 

Speaker D [00:18:49]:
Yeah.

 

Bernie Kosar [00:18:50]:
You know, and I love swinging the bat. And look at the— when you're healthy, doing things the right way, and in the best spiritual mindset you can, and in a physical and mental standpoint, swing the bat. You know, and I love it. I've swung the bat here with you and the Ohio Fund and, and, and a lot of what I wear you guys out is the self-appointed resident doctor from health and wellness and regenerative medicine, you know, from that. So it's really been an awesome blessing.

 

Speaker D [00:19:19]:
Yeah.

 

Speaker C [00:19:20]:
Lay of the Land is brought to you and is proudly sponsored by Serity Partners. As a wealth management firm, Serity Partners shares Lay of the Land's same dedication to serving local business owners. And the Serity Partners Cleveland team understands the challenges that entrepreneurs and founders face here in Cleveland, Northeast Ohio, and beyond. Wealth comes with complexity and increased demands on time and resources. It is easy to become overwhelmed. Serity Partners clients benefit from a unified team of local specialists who coordinate across both business and personal needs. With Serity Partners' commitment to transparency and putting clients' needs first, complexity can become clarity. To learn more, please visit seritypartners.com or call 216- 464-6266 today.

 

Speaker C [00:20:08]:
Serenity Partners, proud to be recognized as one of the top financial advisory firms in the country.

 

Speaker D [00:20:15]:
Now, we'll certainly talk a bit about that, but it has always struck me really since I've known you how vulnerable you are just about everything, especially perhaps as you've evolved in what you felt you should have been from that mental standpoint.

 

Bernie Kosar [00:20:30]:
Well, you know, as again, a man who grew up— I love Youngstown, Ohio, but in Youngstown, Ohio, you know, men make the decisions.

 

Speaker D [00:20:39]:
Right, right.

 

Bernie Kosar [00:20:39]:
Men are told a certain thing. And I love my father, I love my relationship, but we used to think that we teach our children, we don't learn from our children. And my daughter, my youngest daughter, taught me a beautiful lesson. She goes, there's 14 generations of generational scarring and stuff. And my parents, you know, they're awesome. My mom is awesome. My dad was. But, you know, they learned from their parents, and they learned from there.

 

Bernie Kosar [00:21:06]:
And how you are told what men do, and men don't eat vegetables, men drink meat, they eat steak, men don't drink water, they drink whiskey. You know, how you were told over generations that men treat women. You know, those type of just wrong ways. You need to be comfortable in being able to say that, you know, as I love my dad, but he'd have made fun of me for saying I had a celery juice, ginger, turmeric water base this morning and didn't have sausage and bacon.

 

Jeffrey Stern [00:21:40]:
Yeah.

 

Speaker D [00:21:41]:
Well, that sounds delicious.

 

Bernie Kosar [00:21:42]:
Yeah. So, but I'm sitting here, you know, and I'm constantly present and, you know, a lot, you've heard it, you know, too many of my friends now and interviews, but You know, 9, 10 years ago now, I was told I have 5 years left of cognitive brain function. You know, I couldn't say cognitive. I couldn't enunciate, articulate, communicate. Sitting here today, you know, post a doctor's appointment, getting ready to go on an airplane to fly again, and then again being able to, again, to be able to answer questions, know where to land, enjoy being it, it's a blessing.

 

Speaker D [00:22:20]:
Yeah, no, it's a privilege. And it really is awesome to have seen you in this journey through that.

 

Speaker C [00:22:26]:
Thank you.

 

Speaker D [00:22:26]:
I'll pull on the Youngstown thread a bit. I was reading, knowing we were gonna have this conversation, there was a pretty awesome Cleveland Magazine profile from '88 that they wrote that sort of framed you at that time as this civic redeemer, right? Like a Youngstown kid, steel family, relentless work ethic, but I think most importantly as someone who chose Cleveland. And a lot of ways we're having this conversation here today because you continue to choose Ohio. And I wanted to ask like why? Like what is it about this place?

 

Bernie Kosar [00:23:07]:
Yeah, it's absolutely, it's easier in August, September of 2026 to sit here and say we love Ohio. Okay. But 3, 4, 5 years ago, Yeah. Investing in Ohio and investing just in Ohio, you'd be looked at like the Antichrist for that. Well, we could flash back the late 1970s, the early '80s. And we articulated early in the podcast about the issues that were going on with U.S. Steel and the mills closing in Youngstown. and the mills and the jobs really dissipating and stuff, to the point where here, even in Cleveland in the '70s and stuff, hundreds of times the Cuyahoga River was catching on fire.

 

Bernie Kosar [00:23:56]:
Our city had gone bankrupt in the '70s. Youngstown was what we had just articulated and stuff. We were the butt of national jokes. I'm really going to show my age here, but the Johnny Carson Show was the late-night show.

 

Speaker D [00:24:10]:
Yeah.

 

Bernie Kosar [00:24:10]:
And you would watch Johnny Carson and they would make fun of Youngstown, Ohio, and what was happening in Cleveland, Ohio, in particular with our— with the bankruptcy and with the rivers catching on fire and the unhealthiness and the lack of jobs and economics going on in basically Northeast Ohio. So I was— I've always had this pride and love for where I'm from and family and love, love, love the history, tradition, the ethnic love of our vibrant communities. And then here I am down at the University of Miami winning a national championship. Like I talked about earlier, maybe just 2 or 3 years after sitting in Steeler Stadium as a little boy, still not have played a high school game.

 

Speaker D [00:25:03]:
Yeah.

 

Bernie Kosar [00:25:03]:
And you feel embarrassed, you know, you feel bad for the city. But here I am in Miami having a national success and stuff, and most of my family and friends are still stuck back in this place that people are being made fun of. So I felt like an obligation. Again, I joke a lot as I want to be humorous. That's why I kind of get fired every 3 to 5 years from my announcing gigs. But as a I want to skate right past St. Peter and get right into the pearly gates. So, you know, it always talks about remembering where you're from, remembering your family and that, and taking care of that.

 

Bernie Kosar [00:25:43]:
So coming back and being able, as this oldest son, to be able to take care of your family and friends and your area was something that I was super proud of and almost felt an obligation to.

 

Speaker D [00:25:55]:
Yeah, responsibility.

 

Bernie Kosar [00:25:56]:
Yes. Here we go, finding it almost full circle. As I, you know, I was saying late third quarter, early fourth quarter, as I get to this age of my life, but you know, when you get diagnoses like this or you go through journeys and surgeries like this, it's possibly more fourth quarter to OT, you know? So that's also where I have a vested interest in obsessing on this regenerative lifestyle that's absolutely helped out.

 

Speaker D [00:26:23]:
Yeah. So when you think about spending your time, your energy, your capital, you know, this time that you have, what sparks the most optimism about Ohio today for you?

 

Bernie Kosar [00:26:38]:
I think the most optimism is when I see like national shows now, in particular, you know, the CNNs, the Fox Business shows, the NewsNations, the Bloombergs, And they talk about Ohio being one of the number one business states, you know, in the country.

 

Speaker D [00:27:01]:
In the country.

 

Bernie Kosar [00:27:02]:
You know, seeing Ohio with the GNP, you know, of basically a country in itself, you know, the growth of Ohio now to where, you know, it's cool. Not just that it's cool to be here, but that that people now, uh, not only do they have, they stopped making fun of it. They're almost in line now to get and be in, in a lot of the investments. And on top of, we've known from being here just how beautiful it is. And especially this time of the year.

 

Speaker C [00:27:36]:
It's magic.

 

Bernie Kosar [00:27:37]:
I mean, it is, it's magical this time of year. It's a perfect word for it.

 

Speaker D [00:27:43]:
In your, call it business journey that's accompanied the rest of your adventure As I understand it, I mean, pretty euphoric highs but also pretty devastating lows as part of that. And I'm curious what you learned from following that trajectory and what bankruptcy taught you.

 

Bernie Kosar [00:28:03]:
Yes, almost like the issue with the pills and addiction, the health and wellness of it, the mental health of it. You know, you've heard me say the joke, as a pretend extrovert, You know, really a closer guy to the introverted and—

 

Speaker D [00:28:20]:
That's how I feel as well.

 

Bernie Kosar [00:28:22]:
Closer to the spectrum. So, you know, we have to learn how to do things like this in our space, but it's typically, you know, not natural for that. So, you know, things like that, you know, you could hide from, most people hide from. You don't almost know older businessmen want to sit here and be talking about that as an issue, just like you don't want to sit here and talk about bankruptcy as an issue as a capital guy and as a business person. But again, I joke as a scarred Catholic wanting to skate into heaven past St. Peter and stuff, that not wanting to lie and stuff, And last part of my recovery is that if I was trying to lie or BS, you'd see right through it and stuff. But the bankruptcy and stuff, I think, was at a time when I wasn't comfortable saying some of the vulnerable stuff you've said over the last couple minutes of this podcast.

 

Speaker E [00:29:26]:
Yeah.

 

Bernie Kosar [00:29:27]:
I was trying to put on a perception to be something that the world thought I had to be. you want to stay cool or pretending to be cool, not emotional on it. But I sit and I think of Junior Seau, great friend of mine, and we sat and talked about our head issues when you could sit and look okay, but yet your head was screaming to you.

 

Speaker D [00:29:54]:
Yeah.

 

Bernie Kosar [00:29:54]:
And, and we had talked about like we couldn't understand why the the pain was going on and you couldn't sleep at night and the stuff in your head wouldn't go away and that. But when he was out or we were out, people wouldn't be able to tell. And he would say, well, people expect us, you know, they expect us at happy hour. They expect us to be having— telling the stories and holding court and doing the shots and stuff. You know, at that, at that time, I felt like I was that person too, you know, and that was in a time when, when the 2008 where you have the banking crisis and that and you're doing high ups and downs. So you have 9/11 and then you have a— everyone thinks the world's ending. You end up then having a massive upswing in real estate, which I was a big part of. and then getting hit with the subprime stuff in 2008, not doing— have done so good in football.

 

Bernie Kosar [00:31:05]:
And then the early 2000s, that really didn't sink until 2013 and '14. And that sinking over, say, a 5 or 6 year period before you really the flag gets up and you do the bankruptcy and surrender, um, I think is what has really saved me today and helped me get through these last 2 or 3 years. As much as I thought I wanted to die back then and wanted me and Junior Seau to kind of do the things that, that ended up with Junior and Dave Durison ended up doing, and at times being a guy who is for sure with all being north of 100 pills a day. at risk for being one of the overdose statistics. I love my number 19, but 19 people a day will commit suicide in our awesome state of Ohio.

 

Jeffrey Stern [00:31:59]:
Yeah.

 

Bernie Kosar [00:32:00]:
I was at risk for being one of those guys. So that slow death or financial death, I think, saved me from my physical death, okay? It led me then to 9 years ago, in the words of Jimmy Johnson, somehow, some way, not just figure out a way to win a football game and make a play, but stay alive. And so I've become really skilled now at addiction treatment, getting people through withdrawals and stuff like that. So if I didn't kind of learn that stuff from football, getting toughened up, from the slowness of bankruptcy, And then almost the financial mortality of what bankruptcy does to you. Um, I don't want to do it again. Um, I don't wish it on anybody, but I wouldn't sit here today and have survived what I did, uh, physically the last 3 years. But then financially, you know, financially, and the Ohio Fund, um, has been a great way to amplify what I've done. But just to be able to get into the Ohio Fund, you know, and then for you guys to run so hard, hard with it, you know, and what we've done.

 

Bernie Kosar [00:33:17]:
Um, so yeah, physically I'm super blessed, but then financially to, to be able to have come back from it because of great friends and partners like you, Jeff.

 

Speaker D [00:33:27]:
Oh, I appreciate that a lot. How do you feel your perspective changed? Like when you, when you encounter Financial mortality, in your words, and physical otherwise. I mean, one of the things that really struck me, which you've kind of communicated to me before, was just, I mean, really the extent, like 100 concussions, 100 broken bones, maybe half as many surgeries, a dozen seizures. I mean, what the physical reality that you experienced that preceded the state you were in when we met. Just kind of going through both that journey and the financial parallel to it, just like on the other side, how did your perspective shift?

 

Bernie Kosar [00:34:16]:
I think the perspective shift from— you do go through just briefly, thankfully, football and some of what I thought were life's tragic losses on the football field. I'm super blessed, you know, to have a national championship ring, to have a Super Bowl ring.

 

Speaker D [00:34:35]:
Yeah.

 

Bernie Kosar [00:34:36]:
You know, I say the joke, me, Joe Flacco, and Dan Marino are the only 3 NFL quarterbacks ever to be in our playoffs our first 5 years in the league. That being said, been in some harsh other games and stuff, whether it's the LA AFC Championship Games, the Doug Flutie, uh, Hail Flutie pass. And you think that those are, um, kind of life daggers and stuff. You didn't know that that was actually kind of preparing you for some of these daggers later on in life. And again, I don't want to relive them, um, but in retrospect, I'm, I'm not regretting that it happened because it toughened me up and prepared me to, to what just, just really just has happened. And typically, those are the type of things that, you know, have you wanting to quit. And I'm going to age myself out here. The movie Animal House, you have the devil and angel on you.

 

Jeffrey Stern [00:35:39]:
Yeah.

 

Bernie Kosar [00:35:39]:
You know, do it, don't do it, quit, don't quit, you know, go for it, don't go for it. Well, you know, Howard Schnellenberger gave me life lessons when I was 18 years old. I went down to Miami and I thought I was going to be cool and the quarterback. It was a power— it was tough for me to go because I'm a mommy's boy. I wanted to stay in and around Youngstown and stuff. Then I get down to Miami and I think I'm the only quarterback going to be there. And I see Jimmy, Jim Kelly and Vinnie Testaverde, Mark Richt and Kyle VanderWaal. And I'm like, damn, I'm 5th string, like I'm gonna transfer, I'm not gonna make it, I'm gonna be a lifelong backup here and I'm gonna transfer and Jimmy Johnson or Howard Stollenberger goes, I go to him, I go, it doesn't look good, I'm gonna have to transfer.

 

Bernie Kosar [00:36:28]:
He goes, you're right, it doesn't look good. I go, that's not exactly what you wanna hear as an 18-year-old. But he goes, if you run from a challenge now, he goes, you're gonna run from a challenge your whole life. And he goes, it's better to go for it, focus, and fail than to go your whole life and die from within with the seed of doubt that you didn't know whether you could have done it or not. It's almost like that now, you know, that seed of always going for it, always trying, always trying. He goes, you never lose. Coach Schnellenberger said, you never lose, the clock just runs out. So don't let the clock run out.

 

Bernie Kosar [00:37:09]:
Just never stop trying. So when this stuff happened to me, yeah, there's for brief seconds in a couple corners of the room and in the corners of the what's not, you know, concussed head, you know, it does want to check out or look for an easy way out. But that kind of seasoning, you know, I had some really amazing leaders growing up.

 

Speaker D [00:37:31]:
Yeah.

 

Bernie Kosar [00:37:31]:
You know, Howard Snellenberger, I had— I'm proud Jimmy Johnson. I'm the only guy to be with him 3 times at the University of Miami, Super Bowl with the Cowboys, and then finishing with the Miami Dolphins. To be with Howard Snellenberger again, who was a '72 coach of the only undefeated team under Don Shula, to have Don Shula be one of my coaches, Marty Schottenheimer, Bill Belichick, Jim Schoffner, it was— It was truly a blessing to have that type of leadership. And football, that life lessons that football teaches you on the field, had no idea how those life lessons really prepare you for what we're going through as a man trending into Social Security time.

 

Speaker D [00:38:18]:
Right. And it's, I mean, all of that cumulative life experience has shaped what you're working on now, which is really at this intersection of business and wellness and I mean, how has it shaped your perspective on entrepreneurship and building products and trying to solve problems?

 

Bernie Kosar [00:38:39]:
Yeah, so the football experience of— I love baseball, I love all the sports, but look, we love the baseball. The guys, we say the joke, if you bat .300, you go to the Hall of Fame. Well, that's 3 out of 10. Okay, you're failing 7. You know, when I was playing, hey, 55-60% was a good statistic for completions. Now it's 65-70%. Still, that's 6 or 7 out of 10. That means you're failing 3 or 4 times out of 10.

 

Bernie Kosar [00:39:15]:
And then when we say that, you know, in the business world, you know, we want to talk about the 5 or 6 that are good.

 

Speaker D [00:39:23]:
7.

 

Bernie Kosar [00:39:24]:
hopefully, you know, and not the 3, 4, 5, or 6 that are bad, you know. Well, you know what, when you've gone through this and your life's been up on the— in the newspaper, on the map, it actually makes it a little easier to, to not get as bent out of shape and to swing the bat again, you know.

 

Speaker D [00:39:47]:
Yeah.

 

Bernie Kosar [00:39:48]:
So like, I did bankruptcy. Okay, you do not like to sit on a business show here and talk about you did bankruptcy and stuff, but own your issues and stuff and learn from it and come back from that. And that's really kind of the football kind of life lessons I've taken. I've thrown picks, I've thrown pick-sixes, you know, that's really bankruptcy, you know, and— You know, in bankruptcy at times I wanted to impale myself and jump on a sword, just like at times I wanted to jump on a pick-six 6 and jump on the first and 10 markers as the linebacker, right, as Ronnie Lott ran by me with my football.

 

Speaker D [00:40:30]:
Yeah.

 

Bernie Kosar [00:40:30]:
But you know what? Those coaches, that leadership taught you not to quit, you know, and that kind of Northeastern Ohio mentality that I kind of— we were made fun of. You didn't know where your kind of future held for you, and you kind of had to fight your way. You kind of had to fight your way out of situations. So that, that again, in the word of Jimmie Johnson, somehow, some way kind of has me never quitting.

 

Speaker D [00:40:57]:
Yeah. What do you feel you're, you're playing for today?

 

Bernie Kosar [00:41:02]:
So, you know, I sit here and I was, I was, I'm sitting here with Bryce Dunlop's liver in me.

 

Speaker D [00:41:10]:
Yeah.

 

Bernie Kosar [00:41:10]:
You know, and I want to sit here and, and I said this joke just the last couple couple of months, and it's been this— no, no, it's appropriate here for a business show. So in the Ohio Fund, I don't recommend we do this as an investment and stuff, but one of the investments that goes on in the celebrity world is the memorabilia stuff.

 

Speaker D [00:41:35]:
Hmm.

 

Bernie Kosar [00:41:35]:
So when everybody thought I was going to die, all the memorabilia people were calling me because they wanted my name down in case, because that would have made it Yep. Made mine a little bit better. That is a good joke. But since that's not happening, being able, you know, being able now to— and again, in the words of Jimmie Johnson, somehow, some way— spread this message to people. You know what, I look at you again, and as our age differential and generation and stuff, and here I am as a 62-year-old I have a mid-30s daughter who now has a soon-to-be 2-year-old granddaughter and stuff. When I was 37, 25 years ago, basically, or yeah, 25 years ago, I was quite a few ho-hos north of 325, and she was basically 90-pound 12-year-old, 13-year-old, and the doctor scripted us both for Adderall. and Vyvanse as again pretend extroverts, as people more on the spectrum in that.

 

Jeffrey Stern [00:42:41]:
Right.

 

Bernie Kosar [00:42:42]:
So here we are now, basically this century, the last 20 years, in the words of Jimmie Johnson, somehow, some way, trying to figure out a way to get off of that. Not only just me, but now because I point at you like, you know, like I made the mistake with my kids, or my daughter. So how do you do that and undo that? One, I feel like I thought it was going to be just signing autographs and doing that type stuff.

 

Jeffrey Stern [00:43:10]:
Yeah.

 

Bernie Kosar [00:43:11]:
I really feel I was saved and with Bryce Dunlop inside of me, with young kids like that who weren't, you know, weren't given this chance, that I almost have a responsibility. That as much as I want to sit here and talk about how cool it is to have a Super Bowl ring and a national championship ring, It's better, a little bit better to talk about maybe the mistakes I've had. And I appreciate you bringing up some of the health issues, some of the bankruptcies stuff, and then some of the cool things we're doing, because it's not always just a straight line up. And capitalism and entrepreneurship, just like life, it's hard. It's hard. And you have those bumps. And, and, and now with social media and the phone, we think that Everybody's got it great out there. Well, I'd love to represent how perfect everything is, but it isn't, you know.

 

Bernie Kosar [00:44:06]:
But, but, and again, the words of Jimmy, somehow, some way, let's keep going at it. And I feel like it's kind of my responsibility now to share some of these health and wellness things in particular so your age guys don't make the mistakes with kids, your kids, that I did.

 

Jeffrey Stern [00:44:23]:
Yeah.

 

Bernie Kosar [00:44:23]:
Because you guys are gonna get to live to 100 with a real good quality of life.

 

Speaker D [00:44:27]:
If we're lucky.

 

Bernie Kosar [00:44:28]:
Yeah.

 

Speaker D [00:44:28]:
Well, one of the whole spirits of this podcast, and really more broadly, the work that we're trying to do is like, how do you raise the collective ambition of the state of Ohio and help it kind of realize its own potential? And I think fortify the belief in itself and agency that, you sort of exemplified it to me. So one of the questions we ask everyone who's been on is, you know, what's an idea you have to help raise the collective ambition of the state?

 

Bernie Kosar [00:45:04]:
Well, I love— I do the You Matter, okay? I do the You Matter not because of the University of Miami. You Matter because of self-confidence and self-esteem. Why I wanted to come back here 40-some years ago was our self-confidence and self-esteem in particular in Northeastern Ohio with again the Cuyahoga River catching on fire, with the lack of jobs and stuff. It was so poor. And now— and that's us as adults.

 

Speaker D [00:45:31]:
Yeah.

 

Bernie Kosar [00:45:32]:
You know, who are supposed to be the leaders. And if our self-confidence, self-esteem isn't there, how is our kids? How is our next generation and stuff of that? So, you know, being able now to, to spread that, that message you know, of self-confidence and self-esteem to people to kind of be able to, to have that self-awareness and self— I think it's almost essential that we're able to do that and important right now.

 

Speaker D [00:46:02]:
Yeah, absolutely. What was your favorite part of playing on the Browns?

 

Bernie Kosar [00:46:12]:
I absolutely loved the locker room and relationships that we developed. I absolutely loved how the relationship with the fans really developed during it. Again, we had such— again, to the you matter, self-confidence, self-esteem. We were always home for Christmas. We had sad Christmases, okay, and New Year's Eves in the late '70s. The financial situation wasn't there. The Christmas presents weren't exactly, you know, what you would hope and stuff. The happiness and festivities weren't really what you would like when, when your jobs are uncertain and the manufacturing isn't there.

 

Bernie Kosar [00:46:56]:
Sports is your escape in that.

 

Speaker E [00:46:58]:
Yeah.

 

Bernie Kosar [00:46:58]:
And then as a boy growing up, we weren't playing there. So for me, it was almost a responsibility and pressure to make sure— Paul Farren, a couple of our great offensive linemen, teammates of mine, we used to sing, and I have no musical ability, I'm massively showing my age with the old Bing Crosby, but I'll Be Home for Christmas. You know, we don't— we used to sing I Don't Ever Want to Be Home for Christmas. And by us wanting to be in the playoffs, get into the playoffs like that, win our division, for our own team and for our own locker room. As I look around the studio here like it's the locker room. Yeah, we missed that and stuff. But then what it really evolved is we missed is the poor self-confidence and self-esteem that we had as an area. Wow, was it awesome to see our fans and the self-confidence and self-esteem and just genuine happiness.

 

Bernie Kosar [00:47:56]:
As I get a tear in my eye. To see the happiness of Christmas and New Year's Eve hope. when we were playing and having those games and that. And, and, um, I see this now as an old man, when you are seeing so many older ladies, it's super cute to see the older grandmas who say, yeah, it's been tough this century. You know, my husbands, and they come back yelling and swearing and drunk. You know, they used to be happy at the end of the days in the '80s and stuff. Uh, because we, you know, we were, we were playing into the, into, um, late Januarys in those games.

 

Speaker E [00:48:33]:
Yeah.

 

Bernie Kosar [00:48:34]:
And of course, of course, you know, the outcomes of the AFC Championship Games, you would love to have this Cinderella Disney experience, you know, for the fans here with that. So that I didn't realize it at the very beginning of, say, like '85, '86, of that importance, because you try to You've been around me enough. And that's what we're great at in the Ohio Fund is you could really lock into what are we doing and what's our— what do we need to do in our bubble and stuff. So as a good football team, and we were in the mid-'80s and the teams I were on, we would lock into a bubble into just what us and the team was doing. But it got so— it was so large and so special. that you— your bubble, I don't want to say it burst, but the bubble kept expanding to where you saw what was happening outside your locker room.

 

Jeffrey Stern [00:49:32]:
Yeah.

 

Bernie Kosar [00:49:33]:
What was happening in the streets, what was happening, you know, in the community, in the schools. And again, you get— you swell up with a little emotion thinking about that. And that feeling, it became though, as much as I wanted to like it, I like it now, Okay. Because I actually was able to somewhat successfully do it. But at the time, bro, yeah, the pressure to pull that off. And again, you know, we say, hey, if I could just do this one time, if we could just beat Pittsburgh one time at Three Rivers, if we could just win our division one time. And I was that. And then you do it once and I want 2 times and then 3 times and 4.

 

Bernie Kosar [00:50:13]:
And then, you know, again, it's 5 times and We're first 5 times that we're in the playoffs. And, you know, I think of, you know, at the time people say, well, what'd you think of that? Well, I wanted 6, you know, but now 40 years later, you know, you're proud of those type things.

 

Speaker E [00:50:30]:
Yeah.

 

Speaker D [00:50:31]:
Well, and I, and I've seen it, but I mean, the, it's, it's, it's ineffable. The community has such love for, for you and what, what you've done despite You know, some of the wins and the loss, you know, it's just, it's just love for you and real appreciation. And it's really cool to see it, actually.

 

Bernie Kosar [00:50:49]:
Yeah, it's humbling too. I, again, I say it as an introvert closer to the spectrum, but when you see the effects you're able to have on people, and I say this to younger players, younger people, younger people who have influence now, that most interactions, especially from the celebrity autograph picture perspective now, is 15 to 25 seconds. So albeit an 80,000-seat stadium, that could be, you know, 40,000 minutes.

 

Speaker D [00:51:25]:
Yeah.

 

Bernie Kosar [00:51:25]:
Okay, so this doesn't make it conceivable, but to kids 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 years old, that 15 or 20 seconds remembers their whole life.

 

Speaker D [00:51:37]:
Oh, absolutely.

 

Bernie Kosar [00:51:38]:
So it's really important. I really challenge myself. So if you see people see me talking to myself, I still do. And I try to stay in a positive spirit like you see, especially when I see younger kids, because most of the interactions now— and people are so awesome. And there's some really awesome parents that are teaching their 10-year-olds who I was. So obviously the 10-year-old wasn't around, so they have exceptional parenting. To be coaching up. So I kind of feel a responsibility to, you know, be nice, you know.

 

Bernie Kosar [00:52:11]:
So now that my kids are growing up, it was a little tough when they were younger and that. I got a little granddaughter now. So at times you get a little preoccupied, but it's super blessing.

 

Speaker D [00:52:22]:
No, it's amazing. Well, one of the other things that we're working on with this podcast is painting a collective picture of hidden gems across the state. And so I wanted to ask, what's a part of Youngstown that you wish more people knew about?

 

Bernie Kosar [00:52:38]:
Youngstown, there's so much to it, but I was big, and it's probably why I kind of like kind of some of the— I mean, saying this from a real tough, tough guy manufacturing town, and I say why I got my affinity towards the country and stuff. I love Mill Creek Park. Mill Creek Park in Youngstown. So I was a little boy, uh, you know, riding bikes, going through, walking in the creeks there. I still walk some with my mom there. We walk our dog. There's a couple albino deers. Unfortunately, we've had— been doing some deer control there.

 

Bernie Kosar [00:53:18]:
I'm not exactly a fan of, because I am a fan of the albino deer that were there.

 

Jeffrey Stern [00:53:23]:
Yeah.

 

Bernie Kosar [00:53:24]:
In Mill Creek Park and stuff. So from that perspective there, and then bocce tournaments at MVR Club, you know, for the other side of the extreme, you know?

 

Speaker D [00:53:35]:
Yeah, absolutely. Oh, that's awesome. Well, Bernie, I just want to, I just want to thank you. It really is pretty special to have this conversation with you. And I'm thrilled to see you in such good health and spirits and just, yeah, grateful to be on this journey together.

 

Bernie Kosar [00:53:50]:
Thank you, Jeffrey. Thanks. You know, it is an honor to, to not only just to be here today, but to, uh, you know, to have our friendships developed, to what's developed with the Ohio Fund, to be able to sit here and not just be selling, but to genuinely be in a, uh, a financial position where you don't have— we talked during this podcast about bankruptcy and stuff.

 

Speaker C [00:54:14]:
Yeah.

 

Bernie Kosar [00:54:14]:
And then to be able to sit here And, uh, to not have my Pinocchio nose grow on camera. Okay. To actually be in an awesomely financial situation, you know, because a lot of what you're doing for me at the Ohio Fund. So thanks, brother. And absolutely excited. You matter.

 

Speaker E [00:54:34]:
That's all for this week. Thank you for listening. We'd love to hear your thoughts on today's show. So if you have any feedback, please send over an email to Jeffrey@ at layoftheland.fm or find us on Twitter @PodLayofTheLand or @SternFA, J-E-F-E. If you or someone you know would make a good guest for our show, please reach out as well and let us know. And if you enjoy the podcast, please subscribe and leave a review on iTunes or on your preferred podcast player. Your support goes a long way to help us spread the word and continue to bring the Cleveland founders and builders we love having on the show. We'll be back here next week at the same time to map more of the land.

 

Speaker E [00:55:11]:
Thanks for listening. The Lay of the Land podcast was developed in collaboration with The Up Company LLC. At the time of this recording, unless otherwise indicated, we do not own equity or other financial interests in the company which appear on this show. All opinions expressed by podcast participants are solely their own and do not reflect the opinions of any entity which employs us. This podcast is for informational purposes only and should not be relied upon as a basis for investment decisions. Thank you for listening, and we'll talk to you next week.