#258 Kumar Arora — Arora Ventures

Jeffrey Stern [00:00:00]:
Welcome to the Lay of the Land podcast, where we are exploring what people are building in Cleveland and throughout Northeast Ohio. I am your host, Jeffrey Stern, and today I had the real pleasure of speaking with Kumar Arora.

Jeffrey Stern [00:00:12]:
Kumar is an entrepreneur, investor, brand builder, and the founder of Arora Ventures, a venture studio and portfolio of businesses spanning hospitality, apparel, events, creative agency work, and consumer brands, all rooted in Cleveland. Born and raised in Cleveland, Kumar grew up between science and art, a duality that continues to shape how he builds today, as you'll hear in our conversation where we explore the cohort of ambitious Clevelanders he grew up alongside, his early path through nightlife, events, and entertainment, the lessons embedded in failure and reinvention, and how ventures like Sora, Ilthy, Underdogs, and Futureland reflect his broader vision for Cleveland, one rooted in creativity, collaboration, and the belief that Cleveland can elevate its ambition and think bigger. See in color. And export far more of its talent and culture to the world beyond. So please enjoy this awesome conversation with Kumar Arora.

Jeffrey Stern [00:01:15]:
So what, what do you want to change in Cleveland?

Kumar Arora [00:01:17]:
What I want to change in Cleveland, you know, I'd like to change our perception. I think that's the number one thing that Clevelanders need to change is that we can have nice things. You know, so whether it's more on the waterfront or our respective businesses, I think that we should be excited for all those opportunities that come. We're the underdogs for a reason. So I think that for me, that's the one thing I want is that we're not stuck in the past and we're thinking ahead.

Jeffrey Stern [00:01:43]:
Yeah.

Jeffrey Stern [00:01:43]:
Well, we'll pull on the underdog thread. I was thinking about the podcast and a lot of these conversations But specifically this thread of folks like Matt Shapiro, Mac Anderson, Brandon Bryant, Andre Siscoe.

Kumar Arora [00:02:01]:
All familiar friends and investments.

Jeffrey Stern [00:02:03]:
And what I didn't know from afar as someone who now is here and loves Cleveland, but there was like something in the water when you guys were all coming up. Mayor Bibb, like what, what happened to set the stage for this like cadre of Clevelanders that, that grew up together, that have this level of ambition? and drive and want so specifically to like make Cleveland, to change it for the better?

Kumar Arora [00:02:27]:
Oh, totally. I think that's, it's really funny you bring that up. I think there's just this cohort of us who are disruptors. We all play together, we all work together, we all invest together. I think that it's really interesting to see that come up over the last, you know, 10 years or so. You know, we spent our, our 20s, you know, failing and experimenting. And I think now we're, earning our rights to be here. We're in a position, a little bit of power, right? And I think that we are that next generation to carry the torch to do cool stuff.

Kumar Arora [00:02:58]:
And I think that whether it's CPG or brick and mortar, um, or even in politics, I think that we all just wanna, again, to your point, make change and, and just do what we believe in. And I think that that's, um, it's fun, but we're also ushering in that new generation. And I actually get more excited thinking about the next wave.

Jeffrey Stern [00:03:15]:
Yeah.

Kumar Arora [00:03:16]:
After us too, you know? So it, it's interesting how we all kind of started up in the beginning, but now we're in that position to be able to do some, some cool things.

Jeffrey Stern [00:03:24]:
Did, did you always feel you had this entrepreneurial disruptor kind of bend to you or?

Kumar Arora [00:03:31]:
Oh yeah. Ever since I was a kid, um, you know, I grew up in Little Italy. My dad was a scientist at Case and my mom, you know, she studied the arts. So for, for both of them, they're creators in their own right. So I feel like for me, I was always thinking about, How do I build things? How do I create things in all ways, whether that's through science or through art? And that kind of led me down the journey of entrepreneurship nearly now 20 years ago. It's been 20 years.

Jeffrey Stern [00:03:58]:
Yeah.

Kumar Arora [00:03:58]:
Yeah.

Jeffrey Stern [00:03:59]:
Lay of the Land is brought to you and is proudly sponsored by Serity Partners. As a wealth management firm, Serity Partners shares Lay of the Land's same dedication to serving local business owners. And the Serity Partners Cleveland team understands the challenges that entrepreneurs and founders face here in Cleveland, Northeast Ohio, and beyond. Wealth comes with complexity and increased demands on time and resources. It is easy to become overwhelmed. Serity Partners clients benefit from a unified team of local specialists who coordinate across both business and personal needs. With Serity Partners' commitment to transparency and putting clients' needs first, complexity can become clarity. To learn more, please visit seritypartners.com or call 216- 464-6266 today.

Jeffrey Stern [00:04:48]:
Serenity Partners, proud to be recognized as one of the top financial advisory firms in the country.

Jeffrey Stern [00:04:55]:
What did you spend your 20s failing at?

Kumar Arora [00:04:58]:
Oh man, where do I start? A failed magazine, sunglass company. You know, I did have a brick and mortar. I had a bar in Gordon Square. So a lot of, you know, failed attempts to get to where I am today. I still continue to fail, fail forward. So I think that that's part of business, that's part of life, is just always getting back up and trying to, you know, change things and do it differently.

Jeffrey Stern [00:05:23]:
How do you orient what it is that you want to work on? Because if you, you know, just take a step back, like where we literally are, the diversity of interest in things that you have going on, I feel like we could spend many podcasts talking about like each individually.

Kumar Arora [00:05:38]:
Yeah.

Jeffrey Stern [00:05:39]:
What drives what you want to work on?

Kumar Arora [00:05:43]:
You know, it's interesting with Aurora Ventures, my, you know, parent company, it's a mixture of a few things. One, strategic investments in things that I personally enjoy, but it's also about understanding trends, understanding markets, understanding the needs of the consumer too, you know? So it's always kind of a mixture as a venture studio. You have to look into what stands by our own interests, but also like what is the market looking for? for, you know, much of my work falls into things that you could, you know, wear, touch, eat, feel, experience. So when I think about our projects, a lot of them are consumer-facing, or in this case, things that you really understand because you use them daily. When it comes to the next few projects that I look at, that's, that's often the place I like to start with is what will change our lives today, but more importantly, what is something we could use on a daily basis?

Jeffrey Stern [00:06:37]:
So it comes from like your personal taste.

Kumar Arora [00:06:40]:
For the most part. Yeah. I'm fortunate I get to play in that space and I think about that. In the case of Sora, my restaurant, you know, coming back from LA, I couldn't find good sushi. So I had to just find a way to make it happen. I also wanted to bring back a little piece of LA with me, you know, 'cause I didn't find something that kind of reminded me of Sushi Rock, if you remember that restaurant on West 6th. So I wanted to create something where It was, you know, home for a lot of us where we can be somewhere, share a meal, share a drink, but at the same time give you that experience that feels like a big city.

Jeffrey Stern [00:07:14]:
What did you find in LA that you didn't have here?

Kumar Arora [00:07:19]:
I've said this before. The one thing that I think LA might have on us is the energy.

Jeffrey Stern [00:07:25]:
We—

Kumar Arora [00:07:26]:
it's the vibrancy, it's the entertainment scene, it's The weather, you know, you can't beat that. LA might have the energy, but I think Cleveland's got its people, you know, and I've said this, I've said this before, LA might have taught me how to fly, but Cleveland gave me my roots. And I think that in some respects I can soar and explore and see new things and take those ideas, but it's really about those roots that I think Cleveland has. I think it's in our people, it's in our region, it's in our It's in our way of life, you know, and I think that being able to come back home now, 5 years or so it's been, planting those seeds and those projects all across our city has been a blessing, and I'm excited to see where I'm gonna go the next, you know, few decades.

Jeffrey Stern [00:08:13]:
Yeah, and it's one of those things, there's, um, it's kind of why I was thinking about, you know, that cadre of people, the entrepreneurs that kind of you guys grew up together here, 'cause one of the things I think that's fascinating about it is I sort of feel, as a New Yorker now living in Cleveland, like the quality barometer, the how ambitious you could be, was set very high. And there is no limit, you know? And so, once you are aware of what it could be like, then you can bring it back to a place like Cleveland. But I feel like you guys, you had something.

Jeffrey Stern [00:08:50]:
Yeah.

Jeffrey Stern [00:08:50]:
that you like knew already to a degree.

Kumar Arora [00:08:54]:
You know, though, it's exciting to always watch other entrepreneurs and I'm so grateful to be able to watch your podcast now for what feels like 2 years, I would say. And it's so inspiring to see so many people in all different places and all different industries, you know, and sometimes you forget 'cause you're so busy with your own work, but there are people who are out there in real estate, in technology, in health, in creative. And it's really fun to see how much talent we actually have here. And I love that your podcast is able to show so many people in that entrepreneurial space, but in their own light, in their own way, you know?

Jeffrey Stern [00:09:29]:
Yeah. I mean, that is the fun of it.

Kumar Arora [00:09:30]:
Yeah.

Jeffrey Stern [00:09:31]:
It's, it's, there's so much amazingness happening here, but sometimes we're not even aware of it.

Kumar Arora [00:09:35]:
Yeah.

Jeffrey Stern [00:09:36]:
How would you describe the evolution of your entrepreneurship? Like, how did you, what, when you reflect, felt like the first thing that you tried and how did it kind of go from there?

Kumar Arora [00:09:47]:
My first kind of attempt into entrepreneurship before it was entrepreneurship was in college. I was at Ohio State. And it was an early time for me where I was really questioning what I wanted to do as a career. And like every Indian family, they want your kids to be a doctor. That just didn't work out for me. But for me, I was exploring the idea of event management, throwing events, concerts. I'm really big on nightlife. So I was designing the flyers, but I was also promoting them.

Kumar Arora [00:10:16]:
And I quickly realized, In a student body of 60,000 kids, it's not hard for me to try to get 500 to 1,000 to show up to an event. So this was early on in my freshman, sophomore year, and I got pretty good at it that I was able to bring a pretty big crowd out for events. And that led me down the path of entertainment and marketing, working with artists like Machine Gun Kelly, Kid Cudi, Mike Posner, doing a lot of those shows. It's actually where I met my business partner today, DJ EV, which where we run Underdogs, and we do still that same work, but now much bigger scale. And that work hasn't necessarily changed, but it was my first attempt at like, how do I run an event? How do I get a lot of people? How do I book venues? And that was my kind of my spark towards entrepreneurship. And this was a time when I didn't have YouTube, Instagram didn't exist. You know, you had to like learn the hard way. And it was a blessing that I got to do it that early.

Jeffrey Stern [00:11:12]:
What do you feel has changed about bringing people together and what is still kind of bedrock exactly the same?

Kumar Arora [00:11:19]:
You know, it's funny you asked that question cuz the world has changed so much through recessions and obviously COVID, right? I think that the digital age has happened and in that time, you know, we have seen so many changes where, you know, people don't go out as much and they stay inside. But I still believe that human connection is important. It just has to evolve and change. Much of the work I did last year with the Transformer Arts Fund, I was one of the recipients of the $3 million grant that happened here in Cleveland through the ARPA fund, was about bringing communities together through music, arts, and culture. And it's a bit, it's a reminder that especially here in Cleveland, we still do like to see each other face to face. It's not always about social media and the digital world. And that's important because similar to what's happening now with the AI evolution, like, people still do wanna stay connected.

Jeffrey Stern [00:12:12]:
No, there's like a visceral aversion to the—

Kumar Arora [00:12:15]:
Exactly.

Jeffrey Stern [00:12:16]:
All online, all digital.

Kumar Arora [00:12:18]:
AI can't take away experiences, not yet at least.

Jeffrey Stern [00:12:21]:
No, or community here.

Kumar Arora [00:12:22]:
So as a part of my work that I do, especially community building, I'm still okay.

Jeffrey Stern [00:12:26]:
So how did Aurora Ventures itself come to be as like an evolution of you're trying all these things? At what point does it make sense to have kind of a platform you know, kind of a holding organization to do all of this experimentation, investing, building?

Kumar Arora [00:12:43]:
You know, I, I would say that when it comes to serial entrepreneurship, it's, it's a different beast compared to just focusing on one thing. I am someone who's always questioning a little too much at times. You know, for me, I had my first exit early on. So post-college, I had an exit with my web development agency. Once I sold that company, I really reevaluated what I wanted out of life. And the first thing was I wanna invest in things that I care about. I wanna enter industries that matter to me. And that was the thesis of Aurora Ventures.

Kumar Arora [00:13:16]:
And this is now 2010 for perspective. And during that time, that's when I made investments like Ilthy, my clothing brand, and other strategic places that I wanted to invest in things that, again, we love, but things that I want. You know, CPG is very important to me. So I've made some more recent investments into Cleveland Kitchen and whatnot.

Jeffrey Stern [00:13:37]:
Yeah.

Kumar Arora [00:13:37]:
So it's always kind of about pushing the envelope on those brands and again, finding ways to support them creatively. When it came to Aurore Ventures and going back to the thesis, for me, it was always about disruptive brands. Hopefully they're from or have an origin to Cleveland. And they're meaningful to me, you know, and you win some, you lose some. That's just the nature of the game. But in all ways, whether they're passive or active investments, they are things that I care about.

Jeffrey Stern [00:14:06]:
How has your thinking evolved on brand and taste?

Kumar Arora [00:14:11]:
You know, I used to tell people that it's okay to have more than one love, especially when it comes to entrepreneurship, because you have to know that it's not the one thing that you die on. This doesn't have to necessarily be your life's work, but you can have more than one thing. You know, when it comes to a brand, in my opinion, this, this really is me putting on my creative agency hat.

Jeffrey Stern [00:14:31]:
Yeah.

Kumar Arora [00:14:31]:
For Underdogs is that a brand is a living, breathing, emotional persona. You know, a brand is not a logo. A brand is not a mission statement. It's a system of all of those things combined that really represents, you know, The founder, the customer, and the team. You know, I often tell people that you could have a lousy logo, but if it's something we believe in, that cause is so much greater. That is really what a brand is. So much has changed with what we call a brand. I think even back in the 1920s or '50s, you know, it was simply just a logo, a color palette, and it provided a service.

Kumar Arora [00:15:14]:
But we have created so many more layers to what a brand is because the consumer needs more now, more than ever. In fact, you can't even hide behind a logo anymore. You could just tweet at the CEO and call them out. And that's important because that even is part of the extension of a brand is that it carries so many different nuances because it is really a system of what is your reason to be. And today all of us are a brand, right? What we wear, what we eat, what we believe in, who we marry. These are parts of our brand and what we ultimately ladder up to or believe in. And I think that that's been a new evolution and it makes it more fun because I think that when you fall in love with the brand, it is more meaningful, right? And we look to the brands of the '80s and '90s that are still around today that we have fallen in love with through, nostalgic memories, right? And there's a reason why we love them then, and there's a reason why we love them today.

Jeffrey Stern [00:16:10]:
Yeah.

Kumar Arora [00:16:10]:
You know, it's that complex system that exists.

Jeffrey Stern [00:16:13]:
To pull on the kind of Leonardo da Vinci, Elon Musk kind of comprehensive sorts of multidisciplinary people, kind of the artist, creative entrepreneur, can you get better at taste? Like, what, how do you think about taste in the same kind of framing as brand?

Kumar Arora [00:16:29]:
That's a good question too. You know, When I think of taste, I think of creative direction, 'cause you have to have good taste when, you know, when you're in that world.

Jeffrey Stern [00:16:39]:
'Cause it's one thing today with AI, you know, everyone's talking about the thing it won't automate is taste. Now what matters more is taste. Like, what is taste?

Kumar Arora [00:16:49]:
You know, it's subjective. You know, you won't always get it right. You can't always say that it's about you too. It's about general consumer interest and trends. But I sometimes look at things as zeros and ones and like, is it on brand or is it off brand? You know, that's the first question you ask is, does this make sense or not? You know, and if it does, then you go down the path of, is it, how tasteful do you want to be? So whether it's a festival or apparel or CPG, you know, you have to ask yourself like, does this make sense? Zeros and ones. That's how I see it first.

Jeffrey Stern [00:17:21]:
Yeah.

Kumar Arora [00:17:21]:
You know, once you get through that, that first pass, then the tree of questions come about, you know?

Jeffrey Stern [00:17:28]:
So I don't necessarily want to just unpack individually the portfolio of Aurora, but I— Thank you. We'll be here for hours. But I do think if you— we could frame it this way. Like if you were to write a book and kind of outline the chapters of Aurora as it's evolved over time, what stands out as like the pillars of those chapters in the evolution of the business over time? Because like, again, the diversity is pretty wild, like Futureland to, you know, to Illthy. It's like a— it's a crazy spectrum. So just like, where are these even— like how the connections are made, just the evolution of it.

Kumar Arora [00:18:11]:
You know, I don't see them as too far off from each other. I see it differently because it is an ecosystem of businesses and projects that I have. There are some commons denominators, right? I often have a heavy hand on the branding, the marketing, the creative, the look and feel of what it is that's important to me. Even the way some of the systems are done operationally, there's a synergistic relationship between all of them. In the end, the marketing is always gonna be relatively the same. The product might change, you know?

Jeffrey Stern [00:18:47]:
Yeah.

Kumar Arora [00:18:47]:
Even sometimes the look, You know, if you look at the way we designed Sora as a restaurant and then you look at Ilthy, there are some commonalities with them. The way they're bold, the visuals are very striking. The social media has kind of a similar kind of aspect. So there are some aspects of my DNA that I think I share amongst my children, you could say, my businesses. So I do try to make sure that there's a replicable, scalable format with a lot of my work. Same goes for CPG. You know, a lot of the same things that we do from an agency standpoint or the ones I invest have a similar kind of attitude or style. But again, you know, this all carries on with the thesis of why they exist, you know? So does it complement the business? Does that data get shared? Because in the end, they're all kind of cousins to each other.

Kumar Arora [00:19:34]:
So—

Jeffrey Stern [00:19:35]:
Yeah.

Kumar Arora [00:19:35]:
There is that commonality, especially the ones that are here in Cleveland. So there is that synergistic relationship between my projects. Thanks.

Jeffrey Stern [00:19:42]:
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Jeffrey Stern [00:20:45]:
So to the degree that it's where it's more science than art, like if there is a playbook, you mentioned certain frameworks, like what, what systems-level stuff are you applying across the whole set of things that you're doing?

Kumar Arora [00:20:57]:
We get into tech right now, or we, we just talking about big macro stuff?

Jeffrey Stern [00:21:01]:
Well, I think all of that would be interesting.

Kumar Arora [00:21:02]:
You know, big fan of Notion. Project management is really important. Communication is really important. We're, we're Big fans of that. So, you know, setting up the right systems, the right operators, the right folks for every business is super important. For those who might be serial entrepreneurs out there, you have to know that you can't do it all. You know, we might be the ones who are good at building the car, but we might not be the ones who are supposed to run it. You know, and I've learned that through, you know, a few decades now of entrepreneurship is that I can't always be the CEO, you know, and I'm sometimes better off being in the back seat or the passenger seat guiding it, you know, providing input.

Kumar Arora [00:21:40]:
Or maybe it's better I'm just not in the car at all and I'm just filling up the gas, you know? And I've learned that through, through, uh, strategic investment and, you know, building new business. In fact, now that I'm officially 40, I've become a little slower in my investment strategy because I wanna make sure I'm making the right ones. Whereas in my 20s, I was a lot more quick to pull the trigger, you know?

Jeffrey Stern [00:22:01]:
Well, that seems like a, a perfect segue to talk about failures?

Kumar Arora [00:22:05]:
10 years ago, 2016. Yeah, 10-year anniversary of Cleveland Hustles on CNBC. I was picked to be on a show. LeBron James and SpringHill were the executive producers, so huge opportunity for me to play myself on TV, basically. And, you know, it was a really great learning experience. I was in LA at the time, came back home. What a great year for Cleveland during that time. And a great time you got to see that firsthand.

Jeffrey Stern [00:22:30]:
It was electric. Speaking of the energy, I mean, I was like, this is incredible energy.

Kumar Arora [00:22:36]:
Yeah, we need a championship every year, I would say. But it was a great experience for me to really move into the public light, but also see a business firsthand struggle. Living in LA, it was very hard for me to manage Old City Soda, and it was very difficult for me to kind of watch that failure. Sometimes I look at that business closing as my MBA. 'Cause it was a public loss for me. It was tough.

Jeffrey Stern [00:23:02]:
Yeah.

Kumar Arora [00:23:02]:
But building brick and mortar, entering CPG 11-some years ago now was really challenging. And I never gave up. Here I am with a portfolio of CPG and I happen to have a bar restaurant. So I'm really happy that I've gotten to this point where I'm back on the horse. But that was a tough one to lose. Not easy losing a few hundred grand.

Jeffrey Stern [00:23:26]:
Yeah.

Jeffrey Stern [00:23:26]:
What I've found though, in, in my own failure, which was around the same time, was not my expectation for what it would actually have been like. But no one— the person that's most mad is yourself. I think like everyone celebrates a lot more that you tried than that, you know, as opposed to not having tried at all.

Kumar Arora [00:23:46]:
Yeah. Yeah. The lessons that come from your, your losses, the lessons that come from You know, your, you can call them failures at the time. They're not necessarily failures. There's things you can look at and be like, I learned a lot more from this loss than I say a win. You know, and those takeaways, those battle scars are really important. I think that's what makes some of the greatest entrepreneurs, you know, is that it might take a few rounds and this happens a lot with VC. You know, you might love the founder more than the business and you're betting on that horse, maybe not for this race, but the next one.

Kumar Arora [00:24:18]:
You know, and that's something I, I continually do for myself or to myself.

Jeffrey Stern [00:24:23]:
To invest in yourself.

Kumar Arora [00:24:24]:
Yeah, exactly.

Jeffrey Stern [00:24:25]:
Yeah. What would you say you're working towards?

Kumar Arora [00:24:28]:
Freedom. I think that's what we're all working for, right? There, there's an aspect of society where we are always working for some reason, but in some respects it's freedom of financially, freedom from social media. That'd be nice, right? So it's, it's always trying to work towards that escape. Now, whatever that ceiling is for everyone's different. But, you know, I think freedom is a nice choice. You know, ideally, I'd love to work towards a situation where I can empower others, you know, and empower other investments, other team members, colleagues. I think that even helping them get to their freedoms is important too, you know. And I think the prosperity of Cleveland, you know, I think that with the work that I get to do in the arts space and the civic space, the nonprofit space, getting us to level up is important.

Kumar Arora [00:25:19]:
And I'm happy to see what I've been able to do in just 5, 6 years being back, but I can't wait to see what more I can keep doing and just continue to build that ecosystem of builders and entrepreneurs.

Jeffrey Stern [00:25:30]:
Yeah, I feel you do have a pretty unique seat or perspective and purview into like what's actually happening in Cleveland and what, what do you think you see and feel that other people may not? Just either looking from the outside in, from the inside at Cleveland, just like, what do you see from your perspective?

Kumar Arora [00:25:50]:
I think you're gonna love this analogy. I've said it a few times before, given that you came from New York. But when I came back to Cleveland during COVID you know, I came up with this analogy where I felt like I saw in color while everyone else saw in black and white. And I kept saying that a lot. And I wondered why that was the case. And I realized that LA really gave me the opportunity to be exposed. And now that I'm home, I think that it's still LA in my mind. So when I got to see All-Star Weekend in 2022 and I saw these moments happen, I'm like, we get those moments at a time, but what happens in between those moments is important.

Kumar Arora [00:26:27]:
I'm trying to get Clevelanders to see in color just like me.

Jeffrey Stern [00:26:31]:
Yeah.

Kumar Arora [00:26:31]:
And whether that's the next big business or the next big moment that's important for all of us to start to see in color. It's really important to travel. It's really important to see what other cities are doing, because that's how you see in color. And ideally, you come home and you start building for those moments. That's been something I kind of live by. And I think that a lot of folks, much like to your point, you know, Matt Shapiro, Brandon Bryan, these are well-traveled guys. You know, they've had a chance to see what it's like on the other side.

Jeffrey Stern [00:27:04]:
Yeah.

Kumar Arora [00:27:04]:
The beauty is they get to bring it home, right? And continue to build.

Jeffrey Stern [00:27:08]:
Yeah.

Jeffrey Stern [00:27:08]:
No, that, that resonates a lot.

Kumar Arora [00:27:09]:
Yeah.

Jeffrey Stern [00:27:10]:
I mean, the quality awareness idea really hits home. The, the color one, actually, I'm colorblind. Oh, whoops.

Kumar Arora [00:27:18]:
Okay.

Jeffrey Stern [00:27:18]:
So it's a— no, no, no, no. But it's a— I love the analogy because there's— this is going to be a weird topic for a sec, but there's this idea called qualia. Are you familiar with qualia?

Kumar Arora [00:27:28]:
I'm not familiar.

Jeffrey Stern [00:27:30]:
Sort of about the subjective nature of all of our perception. But when you think about color, like, you could agree that, you know, this thing is red, but like, how do you actually know that the other person is seeing the same red that you're seeing beyond just agreeing?

Kumar Arora [00:27:43]:
Yeah.

Jeffrey Stern [00:27:44]:
But I think to— it's an awesome goal to want to show people what you see.

Kumar Arora [00:27:51]:
Yeah. And like, and what can be done for our city.

Jeffrey Stern [00:27:53]:
Yeah.

Kumar Arora [00:27:53]:
You know?

Jeffrey Stern [00:27:54]:
Yeah.

Jeffrey Stern [00:27:54]:
What do you think can be done?

Kumar Arora [00:27:57]:
More collaboration is a good starting point. You know, our various institutions, I think, can collaborate more. We shouldn't be in silos. I know that comes up a lot in a lot of conversations. And I do try to do a good job of making sure we're all kind of together. You do the same way, same thing through the podcast and keeping us all connected. And I think that that's important too. Most recently, I just connected Street Fighter from Capcom, the video game, to the Cleveland Browns, which was really an interesting plot twist because you would never think Cleveland Browns would team up with a Japanese video game company.

Kumar Arora [00:28:33]:
When they reached out to me, I had butterflies. Like, who would have thought that they'd be interested in the gaming market? I happen to be in that space. How can I connect some dots? And we fast-tracked their approvals and they put out their scheduled release video, which had all to do with Street Fighter. Those are the kind of things—

Jeffrey Stern [00:28:50]:
That's wild.

Kumar Arora [00:28:51]:
Yeah, those are the kind of things that end up elevating Cleveland as a whole, as a brand. Similarly, we are now put on the national stage. It was like the number 2 most watched scheduled release video in the entire NFL, you know, and that's a big deal for Cleveland to rank like that. I consistently want our partners and institutions to think that way. Think big, think in color, because that's exactly what our city needs right now.

Jeffrey Stern [00:29:16]:
Yeah. Think big, think in color.

Jeffrey Stern [00:29:18]:
I like that.

Jeffrey Stern [00:29:19]:
What do you find yourself most excited about?

Kumar Arora [00:29:21]:
Well, professionally, I'm excited for our future. I think there's just so much happening in Cleveland, whether that's the waterfront or just general economic changes. I think people are starting to view Cleveland in a light that's much more resilient and much more unique than we used to be. I think we're having, we're beginning the stages of our identity. You know, I think that when you think about Miami, you think about arts, When you think about Nashville, you think about music. I think Cleveland is starting to develop its identity. And of course we are, I will say this and I've said it many times, we are the health capital of the world, right? We have the greatest institutions working towards health, but I think that there's more to us and we're starting to define that. I think that's getting exciting.

Kumar Arora [00:30:06]:
So in the next decade or two, I think Cleveland will be known for a few things. And we're at the beginning stages of all that.

Jeffrey Stern [00:30:12]:
Yeah. You know, when people think of Cleveland, what, what is it that you hope that they think of?

Kumar Arora [00:30:20]:
Well, I can say I hope they don't always think that we're just a lake and we love burgers and beers, 'cause I know that's all we see sometimes and that's all that's kind of shown or the mistake on the lake or our sports teams. You know, I think I would love for Cleveland or people to perceive Cleveland as just one of those new tier 2 cities that you wanna come visit that has so much to offer in a variety of different ways. You know, we don't talk enough about Metro Park. parks. We don't talk enough about health and tech, you know. And I think that there's so many aspects, um, about Cleveland that we are such a balanced city, you know. I mean, we just built and added a whole new building to our skyline. That's exciting.

Kumar Arora [00:31:01]:
Never did I think in our lifetime we would see all these different kind of activities, you know. Um, it tells me there's so much more to come that we don't fully know. But let's embrace it and let's support it and let's build with it than to kind of sit back and watch.

Jeffrey Stern [00:31:15]:
Yeah.

Jeffrey Stern [00:31:15]:
What keeps you up at night?

Kumar Arora [00:31:17]:
Well, you asked me about like what excites me. I will say I've got a baby girl joining the ranks in October, so that's exciting. So that's keeping me up at night a little bit, you know? So, you know, personally, I'm telling myself I got to start slowing down. I can't always keep thinking about the next big business. I got to start thinking about family life. pretty soon. But outside of that, you know, I think that for me, I'm always thinking about more operators along our team, but also in general. Like, we really need more entrepreneurship in Cleveland.

Kumar Arora [00:31:50]:
We have enough vacant buildings out there. We have enough, you know, places that need a business. And I think that I would love to find a way to empower more operators or find them.

Jeffrey Stern [00:32:02]:
Yeah.

Kumar Arora [00:32:03]:
You know, and have them establish their businesses. Now that I'm home, I don't want people to have to move away. Yeah. You know, so how do I provide resources? How do I invest? How do I create collaborations and partnerships before they think that they have to move?

Jeffrey Stern [00:32:17]:
Yeah. One of the areas of collaboration that I always find really interesting, and I'd just be curious what you think about it, is I think artists and entrepreneurs Are like the most kindred of spirits.

Kumar Arora [00:32:30]:
Oh, we're one and the same.

Jeffrey Stern [00:32:31]:
Yeah, for sure. Why do you think there's not more overlap there between those 2 worlds?

Kumar Arora [00:32:38]:
You know, I, during my time with the Transformative Arts Fund, we were fortunate to have funded hundreds of artists in the course of one year. And my biggest takeaway is that artists really need to own their, their aspect of business, you know? Something as simple as headshots, websites, bios, foundational work, knowing how to invoice, all those, all that foundational work as an artist is so important. That is oftentimes the things you already do as an entrepreneur that you just know to do because you learn the hard way. You know, developing a business plan is one of the first steps that any entrepreneur will likely do. An artist doesn't think to do a business plan for themselves cuz they were never told to do. But in the end, similar to my analogy about my mom and dad, right? My mom being an artist, my dad being a scientist, they're both creators.

Jeffrey Stern [00:33:28]:
Yep.

Kumar Arora [00:33:29]:
In their own respective light. They both had to do some of the similar work, but likely also use similar parts of the brain. Artists need to say, you know, I can be an entrepreneur too. I can build, I can create, I can design. I just now need to do it from a lens of a commercial aspect. How do I commercialize my art? How do I enter the gig or creative economy? You know, so whether that's taking your art and putting it on merchandise or selling it as a service, you need to think through far beyond just art for art's sake, but it's more about art to put some money in my pocket.

Jeffrey Stern [00:34:05]:
Right.

Kumar Arora [00:34:05]:
You know, and I think that's been the, the, the common denominator I've seen.

Jeffrey Stern [00:34:09]:
That's the challenge for artists.

Kumar Arora [00:34:10]:
Yeah, it is.

Jeffrey Stern [00:34:11]:
It's tough.

Kumar Arora [00:34:12]:
But it's also part of our community and our region to empower those artists, to show them the ropes, guide them, and at least, you know, share those resources on how to do it.

Jeffrey Stern [00:34:23]:
No, because it is a, is, it is a shared level of passion for the, for the spirit of creation that like almost is off-putting to other people.

Kumar Arora [00:34:33]:
Yeah.

Jeffrey Stern [00:34:34]:
You know, like that's the level of, of care and passion they have for it.

Kumar Arora [00:34:37]:
Yeah.

Jeffrey Stern [00:34:37]:
Let's talk about Futureland. For one, you know, set the stage of what exactly it is, but I also would love, you know, what you've learned from the business of conferences, you know, relative to all the other things that you're doing.

Kumar Arora [00:34:50]:
Yeah, you know, luckily my work has always been centered around experiential and moments that bring us together.

Jeffrey Stern [00:34:57]:
Yeah.

Kumar Arora [00:34:58]:
But, you know, Futureland was enacted by Mayor Bibb in 2022, and it was the starting point on how we support Black and brown entrepreneurs, but more importantly, the ARTECH ecosystem and really provide resources and opportunity for us to come together to solve some of those problems. We will not solve this tomorrow, but it might take a decade for us to, to really find ways to support our tech ecosystem. More importantly, it's been a couple of years. We've raised over $1 million to date. We've had some really phenomenal speakers, workshops, panels. Alicia Ellis, who's our executive director and founder, she has done a phenomenal job of of really maintaining a community and continue to, you know, beat the drum on all things Futureland. We've become a nonprofit now, and we decided nonprofit makes the most sense because we really want to make sure this is not a for-profit model. This, this is for Cleveland.

Kumar Arora [00:35:50]:
It is for the support of those that need those resources. Putting on a conference by no means is easy to do. We, uh, we put on the AI Summit in, in partnership with the county and Google last year at MOCA in November. That was great. Again, it's a chance for us to really come together to talk about AI and what's happening and how we could be a part of that conversation. And we've been able to do that now on a monthly basis where there's programming and there's opportunities to connect. And that to me has been something I'm proud to see and be a part of is that we need to stay in touch with each other. We cannot always do it, you know, online.

Kumar Arora [00:36:28]:
And more importantly, we need to see each other more frequently. It's not just about an annual conference, but how does Futureland show up in those communities and in those places on a monthly basis.

Jeffrey Stern [00:36:37]:
Yeah, no, it's very important, the cadence, the frequency.

Kumar Arora [00:36:40]:
Yeah, we need to do a Futureland Lay of the Land collaboration.

Jeffrey Stern [00:36:43]:
Absolutely.

Kumar Arora [00:36:44]:
We gotta make that happen.

Jeffrey Stern [00:36:45]:
We can make that happen, that's easy. Tying together some of the disparate businesses, like what do you feel, and this is sort of back to the Leonardo da Vinci kind of idea, but like what have you learned from restaurants that feels like most applicable in CPG? Versus the experiential? Like what, what are the, the best earned wisdom from, you know, one pocket of entrepreneurship that you've been able to apply to other ones?

Kumar Arora [00:37:10]:
You know, the best advice I can give to any entrepreneur that's starting off or, you know, one that wants to just optimize their business is get your product right. If you can't get your product right, then you're gonna eventually have to pay for that answer or that problem, whether it's a restaurant, or product development or a festival, you gotta get your product right, or at least get it to a point where it's commercially viable.

Jeffrey Stern [00:37:34]:
Yep.

Kumar Arora [00:37:34]:
I have made those mistakes where I rushed a product too early and the consumer didn't like it, you know, or it's a recipe and it wasn't perfected, you know? So I think that it's really important to keep your head down and invest in, into yourself and the product. If you get that part right, the marketing, the branding, the rollout becomes very easy because it's something we all enjoy. You never want to rush it. You want to make sure that as you're going, you're checking yourself saying, is this ready? Is this ready? You don't want to wait too long because if you do, you might not ever see the light of day. We're very picky people, especially if we see it as our baby.

Jeffrey Stern [00:38:17]:
Yeah.

Kumar Arora [00:38:17]:
maybe, but you want to get to a point where it is your MVP, it is your commercially viable product. I think that's important, and that's the common thread that I've seen with whether it's a passive investment or my own active projects, is you just got to make sure that the product is downright.

Jeffrey Stern [00:38:33]:
Yeah.

Jeffrey Stern [00:38:33]:
Within the umbrella of Aurora Ventures and all the work that you are doing, is there something that feels particularly important in that journey that we haven't talked about that you—

Kumar Arora [00:38:46]:
I can speak on this now. So we recently just dropped a project with Sherwin-Williams and LeBron James Foundation. Super excited because one, Sherwin hasn't really tied to a local agency before. And more importantly, to get LeBron to do something with us is huge. So we had this huge partnership that just rolled out 4 billion and some impressions across the board between PR, email, web, And it's all about tying all of us together. And the campaign was around his foundation. Their slogan's We Are Family. So we developed care packages.

Kumar Arora [00:39:19]:
We launched their whole rollout for the Loneliest Color, which is one of Sherwin's colors that they promote every year. And it's just such a great time to, again, get Cleveland back on the map.

Jeffrey Stern [00:39:30]:
Yeah.

Kumar Arora [00:39:30]:
You know, through Sherwin and through LeBron. And what a blessing for me to say that I worked with him 10 years ago on a TV show, and here I am still continuing to do that work. And it's been really exciting to see that evolve.

Jeffrey Stern [00:39:42]:
Congratulations.

Kumar Arora [00:39:42]:
Thank you.

Jeffrey Stern [00:39:43]:
That is super exciting.

Kumar Arora [00:39:43]:
Thank you.

Jeffrey Stern [00:39:44]:
What do you feel knowing that you've been able to kind of build these relationships with groups like Sherwin? What does it take for more local entrepreneurs to actually achieve those kinds of relationships?

Kumar Arora [00:39:59]:
You know, I think Cleveland sometimes still has kind of that dog-eat-dog mentality that I remember from before I left. And that's okay to have a competitive nature, But we have to remind ourselves that if one person can do it, another person can too. And there should be a rally around that. We are all actually on the same team. Clevelanders love Cleveland. We shouldn't look at it as a competitive thing. And I think that for anyone that's interested in working with big brands or athletes, you put out a good product, a good body of work, and you just continue to keep knocking on doors. You know, I spend 70% of my day communicating, advocating, promoting.

Kumar Arora [00:40:40]:
You know, the rest of it might be some of that operational work, but I try to spend as much time as I can always carrying the torch for my businesses and the work that I get to do. And I think that any entrepreneur or anyone out there creative or of the like, if you want to do good work, you just got to keep putting it out there. And if it's not seen, that's That's a sign. Another thing to think about is that since COVID a lot of big brands, a lot of our respective organizations in Cleveland, they wanna work with people. We wanna collaborate. That wasn't always the case 15 years ago. We didn't have a way to DM them back then. Now they're looking for us too, just like we're looking for them.

Kumar Arora [00:41:20]:
So it's about putting yourself out there. Yeah.

Jeffrey Stern [00:41:24]:
And positive-sum thinking.

Kumar Arora [00:41:25]:
Yeah, for sure.

Jeffrey Stern [00:41:27]:
Right. It's not at the expense of others.

Kumar Arora [00:41:29]:
And sometimes it's just good to give, you know, in the case of the work that we got to do with the Browns and Street Fighter, you know, there was no contract, there was no terms. It was about putting 2 people together in hopes that, you know, we could work together in the future too. So sometimes it's about connecting dots and supporting others because your turn will come, you know, and I think that's what I was I would say to any entrepreneur out there.

Jeffrey Stern [00:41:51]:
Yeah. So, with an eye towards the future in like the most ambitious framing, like what are the seeds that you're planting today that you're most excited to watch kind of grow for Cleveland?

Kumar Arora [00:42:06]:
You know, I always told all of my investments and projects that our job shouldn't be to serve Cleveland. It should be to serve out of Cleveland. And we really need to work on exporting our businesses out of Ohio. That's important. You know, what is our export, right?

Jeffrey Stern [00:42:20]:
Yeah.

Kumar Arora [00:42:21]:
That's what excites me is thinking about that. You know, most recently, even with Ilthy, we're now making merch in other cities and it's working, which is a great thing because we're finding ways to expand. I think that I don't look at that as us selling out. I look at that as an opportunity to grow. And we really should empower businesses to think that way. You don't always have to just serve your existing neighborhood or communities, how do we push those boundaries? How do we sell beyond our walls? You know, and I think that's what's been exciting for me is thinking about that question because there's a lot of money out there.

Jeffrey Stern [00:42:53]:
Yeah.

Kumar Arora [00:42:54]:
And the opportunities are out there too. And I think more often than not, and people might not know this, but people are looking for new businesses. They're looking for those new things. And I don't think that we have to be a flyover city. I think that there's stuff here and people want it. We just have to let them know about it.

Jeffrey Stern [00:43:11]:
I'll let them know. I mean, it hearkens to the kind of amazing entrepreneurial history of this place too. I mean, we exported the most important things to the whole world.

Kumar Arora [00:43:21]:
Yeah.

Jeffrey Stern [00:43:22]:
That's what we did. Not that long ago.

Kumar Arora [00:43:24]:
Not too long ago.

Jeffrey Stern [00:43:25]:
Yeah.

Jeffrey Stern [00:43:26]:
What else? What else is top of mind?

Kumar Arora [00:43:29]:
So we're working with Machine Gun Kelly. We're bringing back Machine Gun Kelly Day. We're going to be working through a whole rebrand and a launch for that. So that's coming up this August. Last year we had nearly 40,000 people for that week, all for a charitable cause to support Cleveland Metropolitan School District. So really excited to be seeing that roll out this, this summer. And again, that's, that's one of the projects that we get to do at Underdogs is really build fun and exciting things for our city, you know, and we get a ton of national support. The label comes in, we get Harley-Davidson to come in.

Kumar Arora [00:44:02]:
So it's just another moment for us to put Cleveland back on the map.

Jeffrey Stern [00:44:06]:
Yeah.

Jeffrey Stern [00:44:07]:
And it all kind of hearkens to Underdog.

Kumar Arora [00:44:09]:
Yeah.

Jeffrey Stern [00:44:10]:
That's, it's like the perfect semblance of all of it. Well, we can work to bookend it then with some traditional closing question, which you're gonna have a lot of. I think it's like very much in the nature of what you're doing. It's for hidden gems in Cleveland, things that other people may not know about but probably should.

Kumar Arora [00:44:31]:
As far as businesses or just things in general?

Jeffrey Stern [00:44:33]:
Anything.

Kumar Arora [00:44:34]:
You know, I said this earlier, and it's not necessarily a hidden gem, but I think collectively we all need to say it loud and say it proud, is that Cleveland is the health capital of the world. You know, I recently spoke at Sportsland last year. I'll be back there again in a few weeks and I said that before, you know, we've got the greatest, you know, hospitals. We have so much going from, from, for, from, uh, even sports standpoint with sports medicine. But we really need to all rally around that. And I think the more we all say it, the more it's known. People travel from all over the world to Cleveland for what we can do here. Um, the genesis of life could almost be counted or consider that it's from Cleveland.

Kumar Arora [00:45:17]:
So we have to keep saying it, that it is the health capital of the world. This is not a hidden gem. This is something we got to say a little louder. Yeah, right. No, because people from outside of Cleveland don't know all that we can do. There's Cleveland clinics outside of our country. That's a big deal, you know. So to me, it is something I know we need to rally around.

Kumar Arora [00:45:37]:
It doesn't have to be a hidden gem anymore. We just need to be proud about it and push it more. Yeah.

Jeffrey Stern [00:45:42]:
No, I think that that is a great one.

Kumar Arora [00:45:43]:
'Cause it's gotta put that on a t-shirt.

Jeffrey Stern [00:45:45]:
Yeah.

Kumar Arora [00:45:45]:
You know?

Jeffrey Stern [00:45:48]:
Yeah.

Jeffrey Stern [00:45:48]:
And seeing in color.

Kumar Arora [00:45:49]:
I like that.

Jeffrey Stern [00:45:51]:
Cool.

Jeffrey Stern [00:45:51]:
Well, I just wanna thank you so much for coming on and sharing some of your thoughts.

Kumar Arora [00:45:55]:
I know we've been trying for a while.

Jeffrey Stern [00:45:56]:
I know, I know.

Kumar Arora [00:45:57]:
My fault.

Jeffrey Stern [00:45:58]:
No, no, no. It's, it's, uh, I'm just grateful.

Kumar Arora [00:46:00]:
A year in the making.

Jeffrey Stern [00:46:01]:
And we'll, uh, we'll, we'll start scheduling the next one.

Kumar Arora [00:46:04]:
Yeah, let's do it.

Jeffrey Stern [00:46:06]:
Cool.

Jeffrey Stern [00:46:06]:
Thank you.

Kumar Arora [00:46:07]:
Thank you.

Jeffrey Stern [00:46:07]:
If folks had anything they wanted to follow up, learn more about, kind of where would you point them?

Kumar Arora [00:46:13]:
You know, I'm really active on social media and my LinkedIn. It's easy. My name is just Kumar Arora. My website is kumar-arora.com. It's K-U-M-A-R-A-R-O-R-A.com. I often post everything I'm up to on a weekly basis. My website kind of features all my different investments and projects and just, you know, fun things that I've Awesome.

Jeffrey Stern [00:46:36]:
Well, thank you again.

Kumar Arora [00:46:36]:
Thank you.

Jeffrey Stern [00:46:41]:
That's all for this week. Thank you for listening. We'd love to hear your thoughts on today's show. So if you have any feedback, please send over an email to jeffrey@layoftheland.fm or find us on Twitter @PodLayofTheLand or @SternFA. J-E-F-E. If you or someone you know would make a good guest for our show, please reach out as well and let us know. And if you enjoy the podcast, please subscribe and leave a review on iTunes or on your preferred podcast player. Your support goes a long way to help us spread the word and continue to bring the Cleveland founders and builders we love having on the show.

Jeffrey Stern [00:47:14]:
We'll be back here next week at the same time to map more of the land. The Lay of the Land podcast was developed in collaboration with The Up Company LLC. At the time of this recording, unless otherwise indicated, we do not own equity or other financial interests in the company which appear on the show. All opinions expressed by podcast participants are solely their own and do not reflect the opinions of any entity which employs us. This podcast is for informational purposes only and should not be relied upon as a basis for investment decisions. Thank you for listening, and we'll talk to you next week.