#156: Mary Cowan (NCS Credit)

(AI-Generated Transcript)

Mary Cowan (NCS Credit) [00:00:00]: A lot of times, I feel like I was handed this golden goose, you know, and that like, my job is just to make sure we just keep going. But quickly you learn that if, again, if you're not growing, you're dying. If you're not reinventing yourself, if you're not, you know, like, doing those things, and I love that.

Jeffrey Stern [00:00:18]: Let's discover what people are building in the Greater Cleveland community. We are telling the stories of Northeast Ohio's entrepreneurs, builders, And those supporting them. Welcome to the Lay of the Land podcast where We are exploring what people are building in Cleveland and throughout Northeast Ohio. I am your host, Jeffrey Stern. And today, I had the real pleasure speaking with Mary Cowan, the president of NCS Credit based here in the Greater Cleveland Area. Founded in 1970 by Howard v Cowan as a Commercial collection agency. NCS Credit's goal was to form trusted partnerships and provide exceptional debt recovery services for its Clients. In the early 19 eighties, NCS Credit earned a reputation as a leading authority in the corporate credit industry And expanded its services to meet the needs of its credit professionals by adding the construction, UCC, and publication services groups.

Jeffrey Stern [00:01:15]: Mary joined the company in 1990, shortly after the sudden and tragic death of her father, Howard Cowan, during which time the entire family rallied And resolutely continued to pursue Howard's vision forward. The story of NCS's credit is one of family and of growth And a success anchored in this belief of uncompromising excellence and ever advancing technology. Today, under Mary's leadership, NCS Credit serves Clients across the US and Canada as a commercial debt recovery service, protecting many 1,000,000,000 of dollars over their more than 50 years of service Across industries like manufacturing, construction, food distribution, and energy, in addition to educating thousands of credit professionals along the way, All guided by their belief that everyone should get paid for the work that they do. This was a fun and truly educational conversation for me. Mary talks about the hard things she experienced and navigated as part of her own entrepreneurial journey, the trials and tribulations of turning around a suffering culture, morale, And performance to an organization now recognized 7 times over as a Northeast Ohio top workplace, the challenges of being a 2nd generation leader, The power of business operating systems and a whole lot more. So please enjoy my conversation with Mary Cowan after a brief message from our sponsor. Lay of the Land is brought to you by Impact Architects and by 90. As we share the stories of entrepreneurs building Incredible organizations in Cleveland and throughout Northeast Ohio, Impact Architects has helped hundreds of those leaders, many of whom we have heard from as guests On this very podcast, realize their own visions and build these great organizations.

Jeffrey Stern [00:02:53]: I believe in Impact Architects and the people behind it so much that I have actually joined them personally And their mission to help leaders gain focus, align together, and thrive by doing what they love. If you 2 are trying to build great, Impact Architects is offering to sit down with you for a free consultation or provide a free trial through 90, the software platform that helps teams build great companies. If you're interested in learning more about partnering with Impact Architects or by leveraging 90 to power your own business, please go to I a dot lay of the land dot f m. The link will also be in our show notes. I was Thinking about where the best place to start this conversation would would be. And over the last year and change, I've been reading and learning about this group called the Henokians, which is essentially this association of Family owned businesses that have been operating for more than 200 years in continuous operations. So there's not that many of them. But the idea of Henokians, it has its, I think, etymology in in oneness, which just speaks, like, the longevity of of these organizations.

Jeffrey Stern [00:04:07]: But as a starting point, you know, with with that in mind, I'd love to hear from you how it was growing up in the family business. You know? How did it shape your outlook, your your own motivations? What what was it like?

Mary Cowan (NCS Credit) [00:04:21]: Sure. So my my father started the business When we were children, there were 3 of us. I'm the oldest. What I really saw then was that my parents were together as a team. My mom was a teacher. She had his back. Let's take the risk. Let's do this.

Mary Cowan (NCS Credit) [00:04:39]: You're determined. He he was always so Just knew that he would do whatever he had to do, like, the confidence. And I think, truly, that has rubbed off. Like, just being independent and being like, I can do this and never self doubting. Like, those are probably the biggest, like, takeaways. I'm sure my brother and sister would say Same. Well, like, when so I was this was funny too is that he started the business on our home in Lyndhurst in the basement. So So work from home, 1970 is right.

Mary Cowan (NCS Credit) [00:05:12]: You're not a thing, but, like, here you you know, here it's a big deal. And that when that phone would ring, like, Be quiet. You know? Like, be quiet. Business call. Like, dad's phones ringing. You have to be quiet. But it was just, like, just So cool growing up. I never really worked at the company.

Mary Cowan (NCS Credit) [00:05:30]: My brother and sister worked there way more than I did. I was interested in other things. I had other summer jobs, But when, like, technology changes happened, like, I remember him coming home with this piece of paper, and he's like, this is a fax. This this came over the fax machine. He was so excited or when they started, you know, having computers at work and getting all the data entry of all the files. So it was cool living through those type of things. And I think all of that, like, really shaped me to be very independent, Very seeing, like, the ethic of a of a strong work ethic, for sure, 100%, and always being honest and truthful, like, those type of things. His favorite book was The Greatest Salesman in the World.

Mary Cowan (NCS Credit) [00:06:16]: He would read a chapter of that to us After dinner, we would have to stay at the table and he would read a chapter. So, like, I'm sure, like, you know, I was, like, 12 or 13 years old. I'm like, oh my gosh. I had to listen to him. Well, like, can you, like how brilliant was he that he's trying to teach his kids, you know, to form good habits, to start the day with love, to be determined, you know, though those core principles of success. Like, wow. You know? And my mom's, like, right there behind him. You know? She's right there.

Mary Cowan (NCS Credit) [00:06:49]: She's just not solely in the picture yet at this point. So The company, like, had 2 I there's there's 2 parts of the company. There's the entrepreneurial part of my dad, and then after he passed away, It's it's my mom taking the reins and and getting everything organized and, like, truly catapulting us to the next level.

Jeffrey Stern [00:07:10]: I I I definitely wanna understand what what both of those, you know, pieces were like as as we make our way forward. If you could take us back to, you know, The the 19 seventies Lyndhurst basement. You know? Well, what what is the origin? What what where did this idea come from? How did it come to be?

Mary Cowan (NCS Credit) [00:07:25]: So my father was a credit manager at General Electric. And I guess he he was good at debt collecting, collecting, you know, doing the collections. And he thought, I can do this better, and I could do it on my own, and I can make a living on this. And that's where NCS started. It started as a a commercial debt recovery service. He Did a phenomenal job with that, you know, being able to move out of the basement into office space, hire employees. And then his mind was like, okay. What? How else can I get more collections? And and I, like, I know that doesn't sound like, oh, this is a business I wanna be in.

Mary Cowan (NCS Credit) [00:07:59]: But then he, like, brilliant, Started, we started doing UCC filings in the 19 eighties and then, notice in lien filings, which is all about securing receivables so that if people defaulted on these secured receivables, we would then collect on the debts for them. So we would take you through and collect the whole process of securing a receivables and collecting the debt. Then over the years, the notice in the UCC side, the services actually grew bigger than the commercial debt recovery side of the business. And, over the last 5 years, we've kind of changed that around and really had a big push. So we're super boutique y. We don't have a call center. It it's it's we really focus on those secured collections.

Jeffrey Stern [00:08:45]: Right. Right. You know, when I was Reading more about the history of the company and the organization, it just kinda dawned on me that it's not very often that we think about it, but it's kind of astonishing how much of our society, it's kinda, like, fundamentally revolves around how much of the economy, you know, is based on debt And credit. Yes. And, you know, late payments account

Mary Cowan (NCS Credit) [00:09:08]: for I

Jeffrey Stern [00:09:08]: think it was a quarter of bankruptcies. And if if companies don't have the liquidity or Predictable cash, you you can't really operate a company. And so it's just kinda like part and parcel to the the whole system that that we live in all the time. And it was something crazy like under 1 half of businesses are paid on time. And there are literally 1,000,000,000,000 of working capital That's kinda like caught up in that statistic. So I I'd love to as we kinda set the stage to to talk about NCS Credit and the whole history and Your journey there is, like, what this industry looks like, and, you know, what have been the important trends that have have played out over the the last 50 years in it?

Mary Cowan (NCS Credit) [00:09:50]: Sure. So as you mentioned, every business has a credit department. It's probably something that is most overlooked. These are the professionals who are making credit decisions, making the credit lines. They are establishing policies. You know, they're they're invoicing, the AR management, the whole like, they're handling all the money, all all the cash that's coming through the company, and they're collecting on it. So they are totally responsible for that. And you can have, a bookkeeper that's in a small organization to hundreds of people in a credit department that report to the director of credit, that report to the CFO.

Mary Cowan (NCS Credit) [00:10:27]: So there's just this huge range. And then also within that is the education level of the people that are in these credit departments. In the credit world, there's kind of, not a joke, but it's like, I didn't go to school to be in the credit department. Right? You don't go to College, there's not a major that says unquote. Right? So people typically just end up there for whatever reason. And, Usually, when that happens, they stay. So we have people who we have baby boomers still all the way down to Gen Zers. So, like, the whole, makeup of the of these departments now are so dynamic and so diverse and so different than what it used to be in the past.

Mary Cowan (NCS Credit) [00:11:13]: Like, what it looks like now, what's happening now, just really, like, post pandemic, these these groups, These departments are still very short staffed. The future, will definitely AI and big data, like, helping them make better decisions quicker, faster, more accurate is gonna play out.

Jeffrey Stern [00:11:33]: So and maybe we can, you know, layer on The the 2nd component that that you mentioned with with your mom at this point but just maybe, an an overview of Of NCS's credits, you know, journey to to today.

Mary Cowan (NCS Credit) [00:11:47]: Sure. So, again, you know, started as debt debt recovery, added the 2 services in the 19 eighties. In the 19 nineties and this kind of talks about the success of how we're we're 53 years in, but we're We I still feel like we we feel so start up y and so flexible. And so we decided to do one of the processes in house, and that was a big risk decision, and it paid off. And, that's now one of our our biggest products that we have is offering notices and liens and house at NCS. And then just taking it through. Like like and then I I think about the brilliance of my dad again. Like, really, 53 years later, we still just do these 3 things.

Mary Cowan (NCS Credit) [00:12:27]: And we've been able to put a lot of technology around them, make them simple, make them faster, help people understand. We have a big education component because typical people like, did you notice a notice a lean was? No. Okay. Or do you know what the Uniform Commercial Code is? No. So we that's our challenge is that a lot of times, we have to go ahead and spend a lot of time educating The credit manager, the credit director, that these are the tools that you can use to help you get paid.

Jeffrey Stern [00:12:56]: Right. And maybe, you know, we just take a a few of those terms, Yeah. Across, you know, commercial collections, mechanical liens, UCC filing programs, just, you know, for for the for the everyday person, what what what are these things?

Mary Cowan (NCS Credit) [00:13:09]: Okay. So we're all about securing receivables. And the law gives you ways that you can do that. So if you are in the construction industry and you are not being paid. There are remedies that you can take that will help you get paid. So but there's rules, and every state has different rules. There's all these matrixes, and we are super good at all of that compliance stuff on that side. And then, so that's putting a lien on real estate.

Mary Cowan (NCS Credit) [00:13:37]: Like, on the construction side, you're you're you're putting a lien on the actual property or whatever is being improved, built, whatever is happening. Then on the on the flip side, the UCC side, article 9 in Uniform Commercial Code gives you the ability to put a lien on personal property. So this is movable property. This is bicycles, musical instruments, your accounts receivable. Banks do this every single day to any loan that you take out with the bank. They file a UCCN, you would take a secured interest in all your assets so that in the event that you default on the loan, they can go in and take your house or whatever. So we do it on the business side. For our clients.

Mary Cowan (NCS Credit) [00:14:16]: It's consensual. You have to sign a security agreement, and I'm probably getting way too much detail. But, instead of a lien on real They this is only on personal property, so it's the same thing, securing accounts receivable so that in the event you're not getting paid, you can then Take these measures, and we will help you get paid because we believe you should be paid for the work that you do.

Jeffrey Stern [00:14:39]: So I that framing of it is is is awesome, and I think segs pretty well into the this next idea, which I think, you know, to put it out there, the the industry maybe is you know, it has negative connotations in terms of how People perceive it and, you know, the nature of how it actually transpires in practice and, some of the the aspects around that. And so How have you, you know, from the the branding side and the reputation and the building of trust over, you know, many decades now, approached NCS's credits role, you know, as a as a partner of of companies in this space against, You know, that that kind of negative connotation that the industry might have.

Mary Cowan (NCS Credit) [00:15:25]: Sure. So I would say that, you know, like, every credit department understands, Like, they're they're collecting their debt. They're collecting their past dues, and then they flip them to us, of course, when they get to a point where they don't they're not getting any response from the customer. I think a lot of the the the negative connotation comes from being on the consumer side, you know, where we don't do that. We just are strictly b to b. There there's no repo and all that. So so I get I get that that connotation of collections. And so So we always have to be very professional, you know, just explain our show our proven process, explain how we go you know, we'll we'll do this.

Mary Cowan (NCS Credit) [00:16:04]: We follow all the rules. We're legitimate in what we do. We're very good again because we're just super boutique y and on those secured collections, and we have an attorney network throughout the United States, that's vetted. We have construction attorneys and regular collection attorneys, and so we draw on them to help us then Collect the debt if it goes to a foreclosure suit because we can't do that because we're on a journey.

Jeffrey Stern [00:16:29]: So so tell us about your journey Through through the

Mary Cowan (NCS Credit) [00:16:32]: company. So my journey my journey. My education, I am a nurse. I worked in the emergency room, down at University hospitals for 6 years, and I had the opportunity to join the family business and thought that with some guidance of friends. Like, hey. This might be a really good decision for you. So I started I think We so my dad had already passed away. So my brother was working there and my sister was working there.

Mary Cowan (NCS Credit) [00:17:01]: I think there may have been, like, maybe 12 employees at the time. And funny enough, like, I literally started in the mail room, and I'm like, okay. I'm I I can save lives, So I'm gonna do this. And so I just put my head down, and I just started reading, started, like, case law and understanding What this because I didn't know what any of this was either. And then just started getting in the processes, was actually doing the work, and then Just became more, as the company grew, took more of a management role of the different divisions. And then in 2007, I was named president. So at this time, my mom, Dee, is is running the company and felt that it was time for the transition to the 2nd generation. And my family is very fortunate.

Mary Cowan (NCS Credit) [00:17:52]: The fact that we my my siblings, we all have different talents. So, like, we all get along super well and, like, hey. Yeah. You're the one who's gonna do this. You know? And My brother manages the attorney network, and I'm like, there's no way that you know, that's not for me. That's not my seat. So It just worked out well. So since 2007, I saw right at the financial crisis.

Mary Cowan (NCS Credit) [00:18:16]: Great. Okay. So we get through that and just been growing the company, and here we are today.

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Mary Cowan (NCS Credit) [00:19:55]: Can you

Jeffrey Stern [00:19:55]: take us through some of the the challenges that You face as a a 2nd generation leader of the business and how you have approached this.

Mary Cowan (NCS Credit) [00:20:06]: So, again, super fortunate that my mom and I have always gotten along super well. Like, we're really well together communicate. We can hash out, You know, our conflicts and everything is fine. So, like, her leadership and her mentoring of me during those years, probably The pandemic is kinda what pushed her out finally, just not coming into the office and just saying, okay. Like, it's it's okay. She has amazing EI. Like, her emotional intelligence is off the chart, and that's how, like, she bleeds and that's how she she goes to business where I am totally opposite. Like, I need that algorithm.

Mary Cowan (NCS Credit) [00:20:43]: I need the the data. I need the numbers. And so a lot of times, we would, have different opinions on some things like that where she'd be like, no. It's fine. And I'm like, what do you mean it's fine? Like, it's showing me right here that that's not. And she's like, no. It's fine. And she's always right.

Mary Cowan (NCS Credit) [00:20:59]: She's always right. So for my transition and my what I learned from her is, like, I really had to hone in more about that. And then so, again, it's just about our people. Like, making sure that our people are taken care of, making sure that our people are happy. You know? It's just it's just that whole I don't even know what to call it, but it was just, like, really being careful that you're not losing that piece of the culture to the next generation.

Jeffrey Stern [00:21:28]: Some some interesting follow ups to that would be, you know, how in in your reflection of your own journey, You've that you cultivated the the entrepreneurial spirit because I think it's a different kind of founding story in some ways of Of, you know, your your role in the company. So how did you think about, you know, keeping the entrepreneurial spirit,

Mary Cowan (NCS Credit) [00:21:50]: alive? So that that's tough because a lot of times, I I feel like I I was handed this golden goose, you know, and that, like, my job is just to make sure we just keep going. Well, quickly you learn that if, again, if you're not growing, you're dying. If you're not reinventing yourself, if you're not, you know, like, doing those things. And I love that. And I think that that goes back to, like, the childhood thing where it's like being independent, working with people, Well, you know, like, as a nurse, like, I love caring for people, being that holistic type of, let's all, you know, all in, Super love sports. So pandemic was really hard for me because it wasn't, like, all hands in, you know, after a meeting and, like, let's go. We're, like, virtual saying, okay. See you tomorrow.

Mary Cowan (NCS Credit) [00:22:35]: You know? But it was tough. It was tough.

Jeffrey Stern [00:22:38]: Yeah. In that same seat of, you know, from the perspective of of the 2nd generation, Do you think about legacy and, like, what that means and how to create the kind of legacy that that you would like?

Mary Cowan (NCS Credit) [00:22:52]: Yes. So funny that you asked that. Not only we talk about legacy at NCS and not just only me or the family. Like, I talk on my leaders about legacy. I talk about people who, come in, and I'm like, you are the 1st person in this job. Like, we hired a data scientist recently, and I'm just like, you are you're you look at what your legacy is. You are the 1st person at NCS to have this position. You know? So we we talk a lot about that.

Mary Cowan (NCS Credit) [00:23:19]: The leaders talk a lot. We talk a lot. I have 1 on ones with my leaders every month, and it's like, how do you want to be remembered? Like, you know, like, what are the specific things that go through your mind that make sure that you will have a legacy that that you are leading off to the managers that you're trading now? So for me, my legacy is I just I just really want to leave at when I leave A very great company, not a good company. I want a great company to the 3rd generation and make sure that that That switch goes because you and I both know only 13% make it from the 2nd to 3rd. So you You got everything stacked against you. I have to be very careful about that next that next piece. And just may maybe the legacy is is just maybe I I I I had an effect on someone's life for the good. You know? Just made that little difference.

Mary Cowan (NCS Credit) [00:24:14]: That that would make me happy.

Jeffrey Stern [00:24:16]: So if you're not growing, you're you're dying. So in that, how have you Thought about and approach growth as a company. You know, overcoming, adversity, challenges of of just an organization With with the the history that that that you have.

Mary Cowan (NCS Credit) [00:24:35]: So we're the largest organization of what we do, and there's not many organizations that do the 3 things that we do. So we have competitors in each of those different buckets. Over the past 15 years, we've had a lot of start up companies come in, with technology and, really challenging us. But at the end of the day, we're a service organization and people who value service, People who value someone educating them, you know, we we call it we're making credit heroes, of our customers. You know, Like, we're educating them all the time so they can go back and make good decisions or they can go back to their boss. So it's those companies that value that that have had. Those are our ideal customer, and that's where the growth happens. People who don't customers who don't care about that kind of stuff can go to the competitors.

Mary Cowan (NCS Credit) [00:25:25]: We wanna we wanna take you through the whole process. We wanna secure your receivables. And, hey, in the event that you're not getting paid at, You know, at the end of the day, we're we we do have the debt collection, and we can help you work that way out.

Jeffrey Stern [00:25:38]: How how did you arrive at this I don't know if it's if it's a motto or, you know, kind of statement that, you know, people should be paid for the the work that they do.

Mary Cowan (NCS Credit) [00:25:47]: Okay. So let's let's let's let's talk about the culture, and let's just start there. So in 2019, I've been reflecting on this a lot. 2 things were happening. Mhmm. There were cracks in the culture, and my leadership leadership team was stuck. Like, we were having meetings, but we they were more reporting. We maybe weren't talking about things we should've been like, the action wasn't there.

Mary Cowan (NCS Credit) [00:26:13]: And at the same time, our employees are asking for more work from home, more flexible time, better benefits, more transparency in the company. So then what happens? The pandemic comes. Right? Everybody goes home. So things kind of, like, Probably just steady a little bit because nobody knows what to do now. Sales continue to do very well because when the economy, is in, like, a downward spine. Everybody's securing everything, so we do really well then. The 5 years prior to Including 2019, we were always a top workplace. Always always on the top like, for our division, we were always top 40, always.

Mary Cowan (NCS Credit) [00:26:52]: 2020, we don't even get on the list. So we're like, okay. Like, we know this is happening. So I started reading like, I I always follow Geno Wickman and started reading more about traction, thinking, okay. Like, we gotta do something different. Like, it's not working. So we self implemented EOS the 1st time, and we did that for, like, 6 months. Then to that life I forget.

Mary Cowan (NCS Credit) [00:27:17]: 2021 comes, we we don't make top workplace again. Like, communication, like, trying to hone in, With this pandemic, like, everything is accelerating those cracks. Those cracks are getting so big now. Like, the culture's changing. Right. So funny enough, ERC was Actually, training my leaders and their trainer mentioned something about EOs and said, oh, we have we have, we have a coach. I'm like, you have a coach. Like, who do you have? And they're like, we have Chris Snyder at at Impact Architects.

Mary Cowan (NCS Credit) [00:27:49]: And I'm like, Okay. Then there's my answer. So I called here, and that's when we met Jim Haviland. We had Jim out to the office to make sure that he was a good fit for us, and He has been the catalyst to help us, like, from the very beginning working on the culture. So we we stripped everything down, went back to redoing our core values. It took us probably 8 months to figure out what those new core values have, how they're defined, how are we gonna talk about them, how are we gonna interview around them, like, all those important questions. And then the niche came and then the purpose. You know? Like, really making it our mission statement before was good.

Mary Cowan (NCS Credit) [00:28:31]: It met the mission statement, but it, like, wasn't meaningful to people. And so and that's where Jim helped us, like, break it down to we help everyone get paid for the work that they do. That's what we do all day long. So we have the new core values. We have the purpose. We have our niche. We work from home. Like, Each manager take care of your departments.

Mary Cowan (NCS Credit) [00:28:55]: 1 person comes in, whatever, free rate, and do what you need to do. We, increase the benefits Package, we added a lot of things there, changed the PTO with with more rollover. The employees all got their their There are 4% compensation raise, and then, like, 3 months later, we gave another 6% inflation raise on top of that. So we were just doing a lot of proactive things to be able to on like, to get the employees back. And, of course, we were going through some resignations like everybody else. It was a very, very tough time. Tough. But to be very, very clear, this is, like, all because of my leadership team and with guidance of Jim.

Mary Cowan (NCS Credit) [00:29:36]: Like, we could not I could not have done this. I couldn't have let this through myself. Like, totally needed help here. Just like we've, the job descriptions, we we We we redid all of them, put different paths for people. This year alone, 9 people have been promoted to new positions. So, like, it's working, it's moving, the, the core values, the way we have them written out now, it's so easy for the managers to talk about them. And so we talk about when we're interviewing you, are you determined? Are you curious? Are you inquisitive? And how's that community? How's that teamwork? When we do our performance reviews, we talk about that. So it was just made everything so much clearer and easier.

Mary Cowan (NCS Credit) [00:30:20]: A lot of this was driven, the change that happened and how we got to. Everyone deserves to get paid for the work that they do was The leadership team and the and the guidance of Jim. And he helped us get to when we're interviewing people to the hell yes. So when people are interviewed now, if everyone doesn't say this person's a hell yes, meaning they check all the boxes of our core values, then they are not hired. And we just have embraced that and and everything we talk about, like, hell yes or hell no. You know? Just depends, but I think it's made the lines very clear for us.

Jeffrey Stern [00:30:57]: That's awesome. Right? A real recognition of of the need to change And, Yeah. And architecting it and and kinda shifting the whole trajectory of the company.

Mary Cowan (NCS Credit) [00:31:08]: So and the the the the great stuff that came Amount of that is this year, we were a top workplace again in the top 40, right where we we we typically were, and we just were selected as weather head 100 winner for impact of 5 year growth. So super excited about that. Yes.

Jeffrey Stern [00:31:26]: Yeah. So in in the context of that, How do you think about success ultimately and and what that that means to you, to the company, you know, the kind of impact that that you're hoping to to have here?

Mary Cowan (NCS Credit) [00:31:38]: I think that that success for me come kinda goes hand in hand with the legacy is that I just want us to be a great company. I want us to stay. Most of the employees will say that it's the family feeling that they love. Even though we have over 80 employees, people still feel like like we're a family. Like, we talk about that, And I don't wanna lose that. I think that that will always, no matter how big we get, have that as just being ethical and moral, treating people well, and having happy employees. You know? To me, that's success. The other stuff will come.

Mary Cowan (NCS Credit) [00:32:11]: You know? Like, if your people are happy and and they're working hard, the rest of the stuff will come. And, clearly, it is because, like, we're breaking these new milestones.

Jeffrey Stern [00:32:21]: It it does take care of the the rest of it.

Mary Cowan (NCS Credit) [00:32:23]: Lesson learned.

Jeffrey Stern [00:32:26]: As you look to the future, what are your aspirations for for NCS Credit? Where where you wanna To take it and ensure its continued growth and success.

Mary Cowan (NCS Credit) [00:32:38]: A lot of what we do, we're gonna stay true to the 3 to the 3 pillars for sure. It's gonna be what can we tag on to those that can be the next thing. You know, acquisitions, any type of mergers, like, that those are always, You know? We talk about that. AI probably is gonna play a role, especially, like, internally helping us. On the construction side, it's or even on the UCC side, it's it's the AR management now. More and more people are are are more comfortable in and providing their AR to a third party like NCS, so we get, like, these APIs. And then when we know if if, Okay. It's paid.

Mary Cowan (NCS Credit) [00:33:20]: Okay. And we don't have to do anything with this project. Or if now it's past due, and it's this amount of money, so now we know Automatically ping it. We gotta send the notice. We gotta file the UCC. So, like, more automation in terms of that, and I think that that will help these credit departments tremendously because they are SureStaff. They need people to help. They need that more automation so that they can be worrying about The credit worthiness of their customers.

Jeffrey Stern [00:33:47]: Yeah. Yeah. No. It it it does seem that the opportunity for The application of technology here is is really transformative.

Mary Cowan (NCS Credit) [00:33:56]: Yeah. A lot of times they say, like, the credit department's the last frontier. Like, companies don't have budgets for credit departments or or like, oh, we're gonna invest all this money and give you all this technology. So I think it's like their turn now at full circle because Even though AI with big data, like, they have so much information and knowledge now at their fingertips where they can make those really quick accurate decisions. It's gonna be very impactful for them.

Jeffrey Stern [00:34:22]: Is there anything that you have changed your mind about As a consequence of of your experience and and kinda earned earned wisdom.

Mary Cowan (NCS Credit) [00:34:33]: Like, in life?

Jeffrey Stern [00:34:34]: In life or or in business?

Mary Cowan (NCS Credit) [00:34:36]: In business. I guess it's just it's it's perception a lot of time is I always thought, like, what I'm driving for and what I find meaningful, so does everybody else. Right? Not so much. You know? Where I'm, like, Super driven and and wanna hit numbers and let's do great things where sometimes, like, that's not meaningful to the other employees who are doing the day to day work. So it was really, for me, like, lesson learned over the last 4 years, for Sure. What these cracks is making the work meaningful and understanding what people, like, truly take to heart and wanna do. That's big lesson for me.

Jeffrey Stern [00:35:16]: If you were to offer up advice, which is always hard in the abstract. But for other 2nd generation leaders who might be stepping Into a family business in perhaps similarly challenging circumstances, what would you impart to to them?

Mary Cowan (NCS Credit) [00:35:37]: So hands down, you have to remember that you are a steward of the company. Okay? Company comes first. Family comes 2nd, and you you yourself are, like, last on the list. It's not about you. It's about the company. And Just learning those lessons from that 1st generation. Again, they took the risk. They they put everything on the line.

Mary Cowan (NCS Credit) [00:36:01]: They had the ideas. You know? And it's having Just learning those lessons from them and not to me, that's, like, the hardest that was the hardest part

Jeffrey Stern [00:36:09]: Yeah.

Mary Cowan (NCS Credit) [00:36:10]: For sure. You know? Again, it's you're you're you're getting handed this little package with those little bow on it that's all nice, and you just have to, you know, to be responsible now and take it. So that's just the biggest thing is just be a steward. Do what's right. Put your people first. Yeah. Well, I

Jeffrey Stern [00:36:30]: think we we've covered, you know, a lot a lot of ground here. Are there there aspects of Of your journey of of NCS credit, you know, that that we haven't touched on yet that you think are are particularly important that you would wanna share?

Mary Cowan (NCS Credit) [00:36:44]: My family, we we talk about those that we are so very humble for the people that work for us. These people come in every day and give a 150%. They care so much about, like, our business, and they treat it as their own. And, like, isn't that amazing? Like Like, what else would you want to have people like that? You know? So just just keeping that team and let making sure that they know that they we care about them. And, you know, clearly, we we lost our way a little bit, but just, you know, seeing that we reorganized the culture, did the things that matter, and keeping them happy.

Jeffrey Stern [00:37:23]: That's awesome. So I think we we can close out here with our traditional closing question, Which is for a hidden gem in Cleveland. Something that other folks may not know about.

Mary Cowan (NCS Credit) [00:37:35]: That's that's tough.

Jeffrey Stern [00:37:37]: That's tough. The hardest question.

Mary Cowan (NCS Credit) [00:37:39]: That's tough. I mean, certainly, what other people don't know about. We have so much great stuff in Cleveland. The lake and the parks and the arts and the food. I mean, I would say the gym and people know this, but it's just having 2 world class Hospital systems in Cleveland, like, you're not gonna find that everywhere. And not that I've had to use any of them, but, like, if I do, They're, like, 20 minutes down the road. Like, I don't have to get in a plane. So I think that and and coming from the medical field, I think But that's that's something that's pretty special to Cleveland.

Mary Cowan (NCS Credit) [00:38:16]: I'm a east sider, so come on over to the east side and Enjoy Sugarman Falls.

Jeffrey Stern [00:38:22]: Oh, absolutely. It's beautiful out there.

Mary Cowan (NCS Credit) [00:38:24]: Yeah. Cool. How about you? What's yours?

Jeffrey Stern [00:38:27]: Oh, well, I you know, at some point, I'm gonna have to Pull together this list of a 150 that other people have told me about and, like, map them. That's what I actually would like to do that at some point.

Mary Cowan (NCS Credit) [00:38:37]: What's the most amazing? What's the

Jeffrey Stern [00:38:39]: or I I am, I'm drawn to the the nature, you know, parts of Cleveland. I I find them particularly compelling. And as someone who Didn't grow up here. Just had no idea that, you know, you can bike to the national park in 10 minutes.

Mary Cowan (NCS Credit) [00:38:55]: You know,

Jeffrey Stern [00:38:55]: it's it's pretty crazy that it's that level of accessibility everywhere.

Mary Cowan (NCS Credit) [00:39:00]: Yeah. It's awesome. And there's, like, so many great hiking paths and, so many different park systems. It's really great. I agree. I agree.

Jeffrey Stern [00:39:09]: Yep. Well, Mary, I just wanna thank you for coming on the podcast and for sharing your story.

Mary Cowan (NCS Credit) [00:39:14]: Thanks for having me. Appreciate it.

Jeffrey Stern [00:39:15]: Yeah. If if people had anything they wanted to follow-up with you about, what would be the best way for them to do so?

Mary Cowan (NCS Credit) [00:39:22]: Sure. I'm on LinkedIn. Mary Cowan at n c s. You want I can give you my email address.

Jeffrey Stern [00:39:30]: Sure. Up to you.

Mary Cowan (NCS Credit) [00:39:31]: Mcount@ncscredit.com, or go to our website www.ncscredit.com. Find all the resources there, and I'm on the the page there. So love to talk to anybody. Sure.

Jeffrey Stern [00:39:46]: That's all for this week. Thank you for listening. We'd love to hear your thoughts on today's show. So if you have any feedback, please send over an email to jeffrey at Lay of the land dot f m or find us on Twitter at pod lay of the land or at sternfa, j e f e. If you or someone you know would make Good guest for our show. Please reach out as well and let us know. And if you enjoy the podcast, please subscribe and leave a review on iTunes or on your preferred podcast player. Your support goes a long way to help us spread the word and continue to bring the Cleveland founders and builders we love having on the show.

Jeffrey Stern [00:40:20]: We'll be back here next week at the same Time to map more of the land. The Lay of the Land podcast was developed in collaboration with the UP Company LLC. At the time of this recording, unless otherwise indicated, we do not own equity or other financial interests in the company which appear on the show. All opinions expressed by podcast participants are solely their own and do not reflect the opinions of any entity which employs us. This This podcast is for informational purposes only and should not be relied upon as a basis for investment decisions. Thank you for listening, and we'll talk to you next week.