#232: Jerry Schill (Schill Grounds Management) — Embrace the Change

Jerry Schill [00:00:00]:
I just think you have to learn to embrace change. Change is uncomfortable when you think about your business. If you are not humble and honest enough with yourself, right, and you don't listen to your people, you are not going to change. You're not going to change who you are and your business is not going to change. But in order to stay relevant, you have to change. You've got to make a tough decision that's going to impact people and their families. You know, you have to be strong and courageous enough to be willing to go through it for the greater good.

Jeffrey Stern [00:00:35]:
Welcome to the Lay of the Land Podcast where we are exploring what people are building in Cleveland and throughout Northeast Ohio. I am your host Jeffrey Stern and today I had the pleasure of speaking with Jerry Schill, Founder and CEO of Schill Grounds Management, a company he first launched in 1993 with his brother after a chance summer job revealed a passion for the craft of landscaping. What began as a two person side hustle has grown today into a large scale commercial grounds management company, now one of the fastest growing platforms in the industry nationwide. In 2020, Jerry began a bold new chapter, Scaling Shill Grounds Management through strategic acquisitions in addition to their organic growth. Under his leadership, the company has now completed more than 16 acquisitions and operates across six states and Ontario, Canada. With a growing family of nine brands and more than 1,400 team, Showgrounds Management is recognized as a national leader built on consistency, performance and a people first culture and Jerry is still very much in building mode. Beyond the business itself, Jerry is active contributor to several industry associations including the national association of Landscape Professionals, Accredited Snow Contractors association and Ohio Landscape Association. He also founded Holiday Feast, an annual charitable tradition that has served thousands of free meals to families in need throughout the Cleveland community.

Jeffrey Stern [00:02:01]:
Throughout our awesome conversation today, Jerry reflects on entrepreneurship, drive, discipline, humility, ambition, what it means to build something that lasts, and a whole lot more. So please enjoy this wonderful conversation with Jerry Schill. Lave the Land is brought to you and is proudly sponsored by Roundstone Insurance, headquartered in Rocky River, Ohio. Roundstone shares Lay of the Land's same passion for bold ideas and lasting impact from our community's entrepreneurs, innovators and leaders. Since 2005, Roundstone has pioneered a self funded captive health insurance model that delivers robust savings for small and medium sized businesses. They are part of the solution to rising healthcare costs, helping employers offer affordable, high quality care while driving job creation and economic growth throughout Northeast Ohio. Like many of the voices featured on Lay of the Land, including Roundstone's founder and CEO Mike Schroeder Roundstone believes entrepreneurship, innovation and community to be the cornerstones of progress. To learn more about how Roundstone is transforming employee health benefits by empowering employers to save thousands in per employee per year healthcare costs, please visit roundstoneinsurance.com Roundstone Insurance built for entrepreneurs Backed by innovation Committed to Cleveland.

Jeffrey Stern [00:03:21]:
So over the last 200 conversations or so with entrepreneurs, when you kind of hone in on the formative childhood moments that someone might cite as their first foray into entrepreneurship, it always basically comes down to a lemonade stand, an arbitrage of candy or lawn work. And what I love about what you've done is basically no one ends up sticking with one of those three things and they'll, you know, leverage, leverage the idea that you can create something of value and in service to others that other people would be willing to pay for. But I think you're the first person that I am talking to who's stuck with it, you know, many decades later, having built now one of the larger lawn care and grounds management businesses in the country. And I'd love to understand what it was like when you were younger that, you know, got you started in this, in this industry.

Jerry Schill [00:04:16]:
Well, I'd love to tell you that there's some sexy, creative story behind all of it, but there really is not one to speak of. But I think it's really important and this is probably another one that makes the list. But like we were, I was the, the child of very young parents and two parents that were really motivated to, to do better, right, to do good, make the best out of a situation that they had been put in. And it was really kind of the driving force behind everything that it, you know, has led up to this point in our lives today. Not just for myself, but for my four other brothers. You know, their goal was for us to have maybe some of the things that they weren't going to have because of the situation. And they really pushed us into, you know, athletics, they really pushed us into college, and it really pushed us into being, you know, better versions of ourselves even as, as adults and still do do so today. Like I was just joking, my mom was just hollering at me through a text message five minutes ago.

Jerry Schill [00:05:10]:
So we've stayed very close and they have done an amazing job raising all of us and, and now playing a really active role even in the grandkids lives as well. But always very optimistic, always very upbeat, always supportive and telling us that there, there wasn't anything we couldn't do if we wanted to do it. I would say probably the driving force behind getting involved into the landscape business after graduating from college was I had a four month gap between graduation and starting my management trainee position. And my father was the vice president of a chemical company in downtown Cleveland. And I had spent every summer from the time I was 12 all the way through college working there. And I decided that last summer I really didn't want to spend, you know, my summer down at the plant, you know, doing what we had been doing, which is painting hazardous waste storage tanks for 10 years. I was introduced to a local school school teacher who had a small landscaping business. And he gave me the opportunity to kind of fill that gap working with him locally.

Jerry Schill [00:06:18]:
And truly, I would say he was really generous with his time and patience and teaching us how to do things. Everything he didn't really want to do as a teacher coach. But I loved the creative side of the business as well as the operations side of the business. Like I love kind of chaos and living kind of in the center of the vortex. But so it was a good mix of all those things and it really gave us an opportunity to kind of with a little bit of self expression and the ability to kind of go out and monetize it at the same time. It's been kind of a labor of love for us since, since day one.

Jeffrey Stern [00:06:53]:
So at what point did you realize that this wasn't just a normal summer job for you, that it is for so many other people and that it could be something that you work on for, for your whole life?

Jerry Schill [00:07:07]:
Yeah, like, I think like a lot of like younger kind of entrepreneurial minded people. Like, you know, I had a brother who was just as passionate about the business as I was. And I had graduated in 92, he was graduating in 93. And we kind of took that, that hobby, that passion, and we're really going out and continuing to hustle and do side jobs. I was trying to buy a home and you know, was on the verge of getting married. So we continued to do what we had learned at this local landscaping company. He was graduating in 1993 and you know, wasn't really thrilled with all the job prospects that were out there. I had at that point begun working my management training position with the company and was not happy.

Jerry Schill [00:07:56]:
It was not something I was passionate about and the polar opposite, actually. I was locked up in a building all day long versus being outside with nature. And we were athletes our whole life. So we just loved the outdoors and everything that came with it. So my brother was graduating, we Weren't having much luck. He wasn't having much luck in terms of finding a job or a career that he was really passionate about. So we took the leap of Faith in 1993 and launched Shale Landscaping. And here we are, 33 years later in overnight success and still having a blast.

Jeffrey Stern [00:08:30]:
What was the faith that you had at that point? What was the vision you had for the company? Where did this entrepreneurial spirit come from for you guys to feel like this is the opportunity?

Jerry Schill [00:08:43]:
Yeah, what. I guess we could talk about it a little bit later, but, like, 1.0 was really about hustling and making money. Right. We were. We were both young and needed to survive. Neither one of us had an appetite to live at home. And so it was really about the hustle and being able to, you know, financially support ourselves while at the same time building a business. Like, we loved what we were doing.

Jerry Schill [00:09:04]:
We absolutely loved it. It was a lot of fun. It was a lot of hustle. We were very, very scrappy early on, and I would argue that we still are, but it was a. It was a point in time in our life that really we just had a lot of fire in our bellies. And we have always been lifelong learners. We learned early on, and I attributed our college education to this. You know, we were always seeking out wisdom, even at very early in our careers, and asking a lot of questions, being very curious, you know, pain in the asses, if you will.

Jerry Schill [00:09:33]:
But we were always looking for somebody that had been there and done it before. We had to kind of learn how to skip over the curve. And then over time, you know, that it just evolves and, you know, 1.0 and the 2.0, we started hiring people, started professionalizing the business and paid attention to financials, working with consultants. So that's kind of been the evolution of our journey even to this date. Today, I am still just a very naturally curious person and love trying to level up and surrounding myself with really good people. And what the takeaways from that, you know, being able to take something, a little nugget of wisdom and actually expand upon it. Actually using the wisdom that people are sharing with you to. To make yourself and the business better has been, you know, critical.

Jeffrey Stern [00:10:20]:
Who were some of those early mentors to you that you could borrow the wisdom of what they had already figured out that you could apply to to your own business?

Jerry Schill [00:10:29]:
Yeah. So I remember the first group was the Lorraine County Nurserman's association. And it was a really. A room full of, you know, gruffy old men who had been nursery men their whole lives, whether they ran a nursery or they were, you know, doing landscaping, installation, or even maintenance services. But they would get together once a month and typically have cocktails, and they would sit around a room and they would talk about all the current events, things that were going on in the industry. And although even at the time, you know, sitting with these folks, you didn't realize it, but there was a lot of wisdom in that room, room. And, you know, they understood how to hire people. They understood, you know, legislation and who to go talk to when you were having issues.

Jerry Schill [00:11:08]:
So it started there, and then I would say it evolved into, you know, going to industry events, trade shows, and different things like that equipment expo. Movable Planet at the time was our national association, and they offered a ton of educational services, and we took advantage of all of that stuff. And then it evolved in the peer groups, the folks that we met at these events and then ultimately led me to join envistage and 2012. I really surrounded myself with a bunch of great folks. But, you know, one of the. One of the things that I take a lot of pride in is we have never stopped learning. And in some regards, I've been running scared my whole life because we were the young guys at somebody's heels. We wanted to be the next, you know, larger company in the industry.

Jerry Schill [00:11:51]:
And I know there's people coming after us. So I think that driving that passion and that energy and that curiosity is really what fuels our continued growth.

Jeffrey Stern [00:12:00]:
Yeah. I want to ground a bit of our conversation here in the industry itself. I think a lot of people may have a familiarity with it just based on their experience as a customer, as someone who maintains their own lawn. I'm a New Yorker originally, so I didn't even. I called it grass trimming before I realized it's mowing the lawn. So it's a very new world to me. But maybe just help paint a picture for what this industry looks like, maybe how it's changed since when you started and, you know, structurally, what about it might people not understand as a customer? That is kind of true across the industry writ large.

Jerry Schill [00:12:42]:
Yeah. So I will go on record and tell you and everybody that knows me and knows me well knows I still own my. My own lot. So I do landscaping. Except malting fertilizer. I still love it. Yeah. You know, I guess use the term generically landscaping.

Jerry Schill [00:12:57]:
It really means a lot of things. There's the arbor care, the tree side of the business. There's the lawn care side, which is the chemicals and the fertilization and the pest control side, and then there's the maintenance piece of the business and then the installation side of this thing. So there's, there's a lot of different parts to the industry, a lot of nuance in all of these different things. And so one of the things we did on our journey is when we started out, the first 20 years that we were in business, we were largely residential design build firm. That's really where we focused and spent a lot of our time. We were in every magazine, you know, Paver magazine and Lighting magazine. We were really doing some really amazing projects.

Jerry Schill [00:13:36]:
So we had developed a really good reputation for being, you know, providing a superior product in the Cleveland market. And we did that for years. Well, 2008 hit, there was the, you know, the housing collapse. And although we weren't really large enough to feel the ripple effects of 08, we had already at that point started surrounding ourselves with a bunch of industry consultants and were attending a lot of conferences and doing different things. So we realized that we needed to start finding ways to kind of reduce some of our dependency on the construction side of the business. So we really spent the better part of the next two years thinking of ways to do that. And it was a challenge because we loved the install work. Remember, one of the things that we loved about this business, right, was the creative aspect of it and then being able to go monetize that.

Jerry Schill [00:14:25]:
So it was a really tough conversation for us to have with ourselves. But in 2010, launched Showgrounds Management. And we had started out as show landscaping and lawn care services. But the challenge was we had developed such a reputation for being high end really, or kind of an expensive provider of landscaping services, that we weren't really being taken serious when it came to providing commercial maintenance. At the time, we had about $293,000 worth of maintenance work, which is just kind of a hodgepodge of miscellaneous residential and smaller commercial, just kind of at the local level. But over the next couple years, we had experienced significant growth. And in 2012, which I, you know, I call like 3.0, was the period of time in which I decided to part ways with all of our residential construction and shifted gears with the business and now focused exclusively on the commercial maintenance side of the business. So today we're a pure play maintenance driven organization that does snow removal as well.

Jeffrey Stern [00:15:25]:
How did you realize over the evolution of the business where the right niche was for you to focus amidst the breadth of things that you had been working on?

Jerry Schill [00:15:34]:
Well, I think a pivotal moment for me was when I read Good to Great, we were working really, really hard, doing a lot of things for a lot of people. Had six or eight different, you know, profit centers on the P and L. And depending on how you sold one year to the next, you know, you were working really hard, but weren't seeing a lot of the, you know, the results drop through the bottom line. And, and there was just something about Jim Collins book Good the Great that really resonated with me. And there's a lot of great nuggets in there in terms of business lessons. But the one thing that stuck with me just for probably a year was the hedgehog concept. Like do the one thing that you can be the best at. Right? And the more I thought about how hard we were working and the energy we were spending and the capital we were burning, you know, to do some of the things that we were doing, it just kept clicking and we were seeing really good success on the maintenance side of the business just over the course of two years.

Jerry Schill [00:16:27]:
And at that point, and it was a really difficult decision, it was a painful decision decision at the time. And. But we made that tough decision to say, you know what, this is one thing that we've proven time and time again because we went from 0% annual recurring revenue at the time, right. To about 50% annual recurring revenue. So the model was to build this highly scalable, portable concept that we can move from one location to the next. Right. We're going to need to embrace technology and get the right people in the right seats. But that whole journey with Collins and after reading the book four or five different times, it really reinforced the need to kind of say, hey, look, long term sustainability of this business, the portability of the business, my ability or our ability to go out and not just talk about creating opportunities for our employees, but to actually do it.

Jerry Schill [00:17:16]:
Really handy around us being able to clean up the business model. And in fact it was called Business in a Box for about four years. That was the when we were concepting and building out our thesis. So again, there was a lot of painful decisions you had to get made at that time to do that. But it was proven to be probably one of the better business decisions we've made up to this point.

Jeffrey Stern [00:17:37]:
So you've been leading this company over the last 30 years and we'll continue to talk about the evolution of the business. But I'm curious in parallel to that, your evolution as a leader yourself and how that's evolved from when you started in your in your 20s to you know now that the CEO of, of where you guys are now, how do.

Jeffrey Stern [00:18:00]:
You feel you've evolved as a leader.

Jeffrey Stern [00:18:02]:
In parallel to, to the business over the subsequent stages of, of the business?

Jerry Schill [00:18:10]:
Yeah, I mentioned it a little bit ago, but we, we have always been curious and I think that is a really important attribute if you're going to be an entrepreneur or business owner. Regardless of what the product or the service may be, you, you have to constantly be evolving. You have to embrace change. And in order to do that, a lot of times, right, you need to surround yourself or be around people that have achieved some of those results already. And I have had some of the best experiences of my life, both personally and professionally as a result of getting out there and networking and surrounding yourself with good people, even at our size. This morning I was on a call with a gentleman from, you know, the mid Atlantic region, asking him if he would be a mentor to me because there are certain things that I want to know, not from where I'm at today, but where I want to be in the next five years. And it's important to kind of go out and gain that perspective because it is amazing to me how generous people are with their time. And I have never met anybody up to this point.

Jerry Schill [00:19:10]:
I've never said no to anybody and I've never had anybody tell me no when you ask for help. And in fact, I think, I think it's just a. No natural, it's just a kind of a natural thing for business owners or high level executives to want to share and kind of like create that legacy, that lasting impression and be able to pay it forward. Because a lot of us, you know, none of us got here on our own. We're the sum of all of our experiences personally and professionally. And it's really important to not just go out and seek help, but to actually make sure you're providing help with, called upon to do so.

Jeffrey Stern [00:19:45]:
I mean, that, that's certainly been demonstrated in abundance to me through just the exercise of this podcast over the last five years. I mean, that is, that is the perennial story. And no one, no one gets there on their own. And really in the spirit of that, I mean, we got first connected through Sanjay Singh, who's shared his own story on the podcast, just reflecting on his time leading Mace in addition to everything else he's working on. But I'd love to double click on the group of your peers that you've surrounded yourself with and maybe just lay out, you know, how that group has helped you. I always find it's interesting because, you know, the diversity of what the businesses themselves are is very vast. But the fundamental problems that you're dealing with are very similar, despite the businesses being so different. And just what first, like what you've learned from Sanjay, but also what you've taken from, from Vistage and, and these kinds of groups.

Jerry Schill [00:20:43]:
Yeah, Sanjay is one great example of somebody when, you know, called upon and asked for help and kind of, kind of wisdom in situations and not just, not just on a business level, but even on a personal level. I mean, people that know Sanjay understand what I'm talking about. Sanjay has always been so giving in his time and he's more interested in the person than he is the problem. And he's really good about seeking to understand without, you know, always looking to answer the questions. He does a really good job helping me in particular answer my own questions a lot of times, which is really insightful because I am very high strung and I have a lot of energy and I do not need to sleep, but being able to kind of slow down, you know, on my journey of self awareness and you know, some of the other things that I've done on a personal level, not just a leadership perspective, but, you know, who am I as as an individual and as a person? Sanji's played a critical role, kind of helped me work through some of those challenges as well. And I think he'll have a job for a long time because I'm not getting much better anytime sooner. So. But when you think about the group that Sanjay and I are in, it's a group of like minded individuals and you go to these meetings and you get what you put into, right? You have to be willing to contribute, you have to be able to listen and you have to be able to take criticism sometimes.

Jerry Schill [00:22:03]:
You know, one of my favorite quotes is, you know, vision without execution is hallucination. And when you're in groups like this and people are willing to put the time in and help you and solve problems, you owe it to those people. It is, it is the absolute sign of respect to actually do something with the feedback and the wisdom you're getting from these folks. And all businesses are the same. They are, it's people, profits, process, it's cash, it's customers. Everybody has the same challenges. When you're an entrepreneur or business owner and being able to go in there and have a safe place to kind of talk through some of these challenges, both personally and professionally, because people that are kind of married to their work, right, Their, their personal lives spill into these Things and being able to go in there and get perspective and find balance and have people that are brave enough to tell you what you need to hear, not just what you want to hear is really important because when you're sitting at the top, so to speak, there's. It's really tough for people to really sometimes tell you what, what you need to hear.

Jerry Schill [00:23:07]:
And these guys are not afraid to let you know what you need to hear. So it's really been a blessing. In fact, I would argue Vistage in particular has been transformative and not just my life, but my career, because they were always there to answer the tough questions and give me the support and the wisdom and really expose me to resources and other people that I needed along our journey.

Jeffrey Stern [00:23:29]:
And those lines of balance certainly blend when family is part of the equation. And so I want to ask with that in mind, what's it been like working so closely with your brother in the business for so many years and just that dynamic to the whole journey?

Jerry Schill [00:23:47]:
Yeah, I mean, some of it's what you'd expect, right? He is not afraid. He's one of the folks that works with me that is not afraid to tell me what I need to hear. But I think there's a good balance. He is one of the best operationally minded people I've ever met. In fact, I would put him up against anybody in the entire country in terms of doing what we do and being an expert at it. He filled in for me for I think like 10 days one time. And I got back and he said, I never want to do your job again, ever. That's great because I never want to do your job.

Jerry Schill [00:24:18]:
So I think there's a really good balance there and we know what our unique abilities are and we're humble enough to just come to work every day and execute upon those things because we've got at this point almost 1500 employees that are counting on us to do our part. There's no egos when it comes to this. I couldn't imagine not doing it with my brother at this point. Way more good days than bad days.

Jeffrey Stern [00:24:43]:
You mentioned, you know, overnight success roughly 30 years in the making here. Obviously you've now scaled to about 1500 employees, as you just said, managing thousands of properties. How is that amount of scale weighed on the balance of culture and service, quality and growth, and how you've just up leveled the organization as you've scaled the business? And, and what, what would you say the, the ultimate vision you have for the business is when you think about.

Jerry Schill [00:25:15]:
Scale Cultural aspect for me has been the most challenging. And I know people throw culture around. It's a buzzword. And, you know, everybody's got a great culture and everybody's working on their culture. But it's fundamentally the way we grew our business. The SGM way is to surround, you know, to deliver an extraordinary experience to our customers and our employees. And it's always been super meaningful to me. But as we've continued to grow and we have been acquisitive over time, the one thing I learned was you need to have humility.

Jerry Schill [00:25:47]:
A lot of these people are nervous and scared and wondering what's going to happen. And so you have to go in and really earn their trust. And in our business, we're a service business, it's everything is people, everything. Our product is labor. So we're going out and taking care of these folks. So our core values are employee centered and customer focused and champions in the communities we serve. Those are our core values. What we have done is we've continued to honor the rich traditions and the history that some of these partners have brought with them, you know, from the acquisitions, and we embrace and participate in some of that as well.

Jerry Schill [00:26:25]:
We all agree on the overarching core values, right? Our people and our customers and our communities. But we've done a lot to go in there and earn a lot of the trust and the credibility. I am still an operator at heart. So between myself, my COO and the VP of operations and several other people in the organization, we are constantly. We've got 33 locations today. We'll have 37 year, hopefully by the end of the month. But we are constantly going through the locations so they feel supported. And when you do that and you earn the trust of people, it's a lot easier to really get focused on the areas that you can help improve versus, you know, constantly being at odds with one another, trying to maintain different identities.

Jerry Schill [00:27:09]:
But doing deals are hard. And getting folks integrated into your business and your culture takes a lot of intentionality, a lot of work. You have to be very, very specific about what you're trying to accomplish. And sometimes you get to choose your battles. And over time, like I said, when you earn the respect and the trust of these folks, it's business as usual. You know, we are, we have stayed very, very entrepreneurial. In fact, six weeks ago, I was out changing mower blades in one of our Pennsylvania locations because they were short. But that's the mindset that we, we've maintained even though we, we've expanded, you know, Significantly in the eight states and Canada, we look at this thing as operators and we know all the pressure points and all the struggles that they're going through.

Jerry Schill [00:27:54]:
It's hot, it's cold, you know, we're short staffed and you know, we've got equipment failures, but we understand it so we can relate. To me, it's about being out at the locations and understanding what's going to make their lives better. Because I always joke around saying you can't treat your employees like and expect them to treat your customers like gold. That just defies logic. So we're boots on the ground type of organization. And you state super entrepreneurial, you introduced.

Jeffrey Stern [00:28:22]:
This concept that more recently the business has grown through an acquisitory approach. I'm curious, at what point in your journey, in this trade off of organic and inorganic growth, did you come to feel that acquisitions were the right way to expand the business versus growing organically. And I'm just curious how you weighed the risks, the trade offs of that strategy and ultimately, you know, what excited you enough about it to decide this, this is the path that you want to pursue to, to grow the business going forward?

Jerry Schill [00:28:57]:
Yeah. So to be clear, organic growth is still our primary objective. It always will be. We, we need to take care of our customers. You know, we're driving 90 plus percent retention year over year. We're 90% annual reoccurring revenue today from 0 to 90% over the course of 12 or 13 years. We will always continue to push the organic side of this. There's tons of white space in our, all the markets that we're in.

Jerry Schill [00:29:23]:
So. But in terms of, you know, being acquisitive, we had went from 2012 to about 2018 and a half where we had built this business in a box concept. We embraced technology, really started aligning the right people, putting them in the right seats, and really focused on building this culture of excellence, this mindset. Right. Like we are a maintenance driven organization. We want to create opportunities, not just talk about it. So we knew the work that had to be done to kind of to build the business that we wanted to build. And we were very intentional about what the expectations were.

Jerry Schill [00:29:56]:
So we had tested our own proof of concept in Cleveland where we went from one location to three locations. And you know, after the second one, you got to bang out some more dents and tighten up the software. You got to tweak the hierarchy, if you will, to make sure that you can support these folks. And to me, the whole time it was always about, we have to be able to support these locations after we scanned them up. Setting up a greenfield is not difficult, but actually supporting them and giving them the tools, the resources and the attention that they need to be successful is just paramount to making this thing work. So I began looking for opportunities after we opened a third location outside of the Cleveland market. Obviously we're all Cleveland. There's.

Jerry Schill [00:30:38]:
We realize we live on the lake. So in terms of kind of a geography, we're dealing with half of a market. I started looking at opportunities, quickly realized, you know, because my Vistage buddies all got me, you know, intrigued by acquisitions, both being acquired and buying, but started looking at acquisition opportunities, realized it was really expensive. They were a lot more complicated than I thought. You know, we were sitting flush with cash at the time. I went to my bank and asked them to finance this thing that the deal was actually less than the amount of cash we had in the bank. And they're like, we're not going to finance a landscape business. So I began thinking about alternative ways to go out and fund some of this acquisitive growth.

Jerry Schill [00:31:18]:
Everybody knows Shark Tank. So I ended up putting a book together, met with a broker who I'd heard of and worked with in the past. Put, put, put a sim together and basically went out and started interviewing both family offices and private but equity and some of the VC money that was out there. And ended up partnering with argonne in late 2020. And they've been an amazing partner up to this point. So they've been able to not just provide the capital we need, right? Well, they've been able to provide the capital we needed to scale the business and they've been really supportive along the way.

Jeffrey Stern [00:31:50]:
So you have since acquired a few businesses. You mentioned the expansion into multiple states and into Canada. I think you've spoken a bit to this at a high level, but what have you learned about what it takes to merge two companies successfully and the process of successfully integrating a company into, you know, the SGM family and what your approach looks like?

Jerry Schill [00:32:19]:
Yeah. So doing deals is hard. Everybody looks at it from the street, right, and thinks, oh, like we're just going to go acquire somebody and continue to grow. It's extremely difficult to do it and do it really well. You have to have a team of amazing people around you to kind of help execute the playbook. And in the M and A world, all you people talk about the playbook all the time. So the first thing I would tell you is I think one of the reasons we've been successful doing all 16 of our deals, we've had one that's kind of gotten a little sideways. They haven't all been perfect, but we've had one that got sideways is we've partnered with management teams.

Jerry Schill [00:32:52]:
We're not going in looking for fixer uppers. We're going in and making investments in the second level of management as kind of a baseline. And one of the reasons I started the to think differently about my business, where I went from 100% ownership to, you know, owning a minority share in the business for the capital to go grow was I have four amazing children and they're all independently successful and happy doing their own thing and weren't interested in the business. So part of this was as much about, you know, business continuity planning as it was the ability to kind of go out and grow. But when we think about partnering with these other companies, some owners are extremely engaged. We've solved for a ton of different owners objectives, but we do not make investments in the former owner. We're looking to make the investments in the management teams that are. They're running the businesses every day.

Jerry Schill [00:33:45]:
Obviously, being an operator, I have an operator's mindset. We are not bankers. I believe that people need to have the tools and the resources necessary when we talk about creating opportunities to become experts in their field. And you can't do that without having a framework or support system in place to make sure that they have access to talent. So we operate on a regional framework concept where Southern Ohio and Indianapolis are part of a region. They have their own regional manager, regional controller, HR and talent. Right. I don't want branch managers and account managers and operations managers that just get a financial report every month.

Jerry Schill [00:34:25]:
I want them to know how to read it, understand it, and use it as a tool to improve the operational execution and performance of the business. We want our HR folks to meet with the branch managers and talk about staffing and building a better bench and, you know, upgrading talent where it's necessary and filling up the seats where we need to. So that's kind of the mindset that we have. When I was setting up the business and putting my thesis together, the number one issue that most people that had sold their businesses in our industry had was the minute the acquisition was done, they felt abandoned. They didn't have the support system, you know, they, they put the tombstone on their, their back, you know, the strategics and just kind of like abandoned some of these folks. So I made it a point in our business model and with the folks that I hired to make sure that that was never going to be an issue. So it's a very unique, very differentiated concept that we've got in terms of our industry. And so going in there, making the investments in people and identifying them and give them the tools they need and the resources to be amazing is really our secret sauce.

Jerry Schill [00:35:31]:
And then a lot of these folks that we're partnering with ran really good lifestyle businesses. You know, five to ten million dollars. They were comfortable. You know, it was throwing off enough cash that they can, they could live the lifestyle that they wanted. Everything that the business needed was an expense versus our, our mindset is it's an investment and we go in and layer in the business development and the talent acquisition and really supercharge these businesses.

Jeffrey Stern [00:35:59]:
What is the role of technology in, in your world? How do you think about it?

Jerry Schill [00:36:06]:
Yeah, well, it was part of our original concept. Technology in our industry was not very prevalent or common until kind of the introduction of institutional capital in that 2008, 2010, maybe 2010. And once institutional capital came in, we started to see technology expand, whether it was improvements to existing equipment. And now there's 20 different software platforms out there that you can use. But we knew in order to scale right at the velocity we wanted to, that we were gonna, we had to have a tech stack even in 2012. Right. That would allow us real time visibility into the business and be able to give people a scorecard so they knew if they were winning or losing. That was the, the athletic side of all of us.

Jerry Schill [00:36:56]:
So we had historically started doing it on grease boards and then we had fathead stickers made for the walls because we were all athletes, and then embraced, you know, selling TVs and then, you know, went through two, two separate software platforms to make sure that we had the ability to get, let the teams know how they were doing. We, we were always really good at managing labor, which is the biggest thing that we could manage. But today, I mean, you, you, you couldn't do it without technology. And you know, with the introduction of AI even, even in the landscaping business, it's really important. You know, we've got 33 locations, so there are better ways to, you know, go through and take advantage of the data. And I was hoping to get out of here before AI really, really took over, but I don't think it's. So we are pretty deep in even AI today.

Jeffrey Stern [00:37:47]:
But, you know, is that with regards to running of the business itself or is that, you know, automated lawn care and maintenance?

Jerry Schill [00:37:55]:
Well, there's, it's a little bit of everything. So we're, we're, we're using robots in situations, we're beta testing some of the robots. The technology has gotten a lot better even over the last couple of years. There's autonomy that we're, we're dealing with, but even AI in terms of our ability to be able to go in and leverage all the data that we collect and all the information, whether it's, you know, new customers or old customers or enhancement type sales. So how do we leverage all that information more meaningfully and faster to drive improvements throughout, you know, the organization? We've got certain, certain categories in our business and like enhancement sales which are add on sales to existing contracts and the margins on those are, you know, 50% higher than the maintenance type work. So those are all the things that we're constantly looking at, trying to evolve and expand upon and get better. And technology is leading that effort within our organization as well. We've been using technology in a very robust way since 2012.

Jeffrey Stern [00:38:59]:
So if this, this all started as an exercise in hustle, as you mentioned, you know, just figuring out a way to financially support yourself at the beginning, I'm sure that at some point along this journey you reached a point where that was true, where, you know, you could take care of yourself and your family. What did you find at that point, you know, switched towards, you know, what the future of SGM could be and kind of the broader ambition for the business. What do you find is motivating you today and what are you most excited about when you think about the future of sgm?

Jerry Schill [00:39:38]:
Yeah, so I heard this speaker a couple weeks ago about the three mountains and the first mountain is about me, the second one's about us and then the third one's about them. I'm in that, on that third mountain and you know, I would be fooling myself if, you know, I didn't come to the realization that I have less time than I do more. And I think my single biggest responsibility as the founder, president and CEO of this organization is to find its future leader, identify talent, hopefully that somebody internally over time because we're really proud of what we've built and we're not just talking about creating opportunities. We, we are actually doing it. We have elevated people from crew level positions in the running 7, 8, 10 million dollar branches. And these folks went from making, you know, 18 bucks an hour to six figures. I mean, to me that's what it's all about. And so when I think about them, it's to continue to build out this, this framework, the Infrastructure layer in the tools and the resources and the talent that's needed to continue to drive this thing long after I'm gone.

Jerry Schill [00:40:45]:
I mean, ultimately that would be, that would be super cool if my great grandkids knew, you know, what I did for a living and the business was still running around then. But to me, it's all about people. The people that got us here, the people that believed in us, the people that didn't, you know, the people that motivated us to do this. And then, you know, the future members of this organization that are going to take it to levels that I'm not going to be able to. And so I'm kind of in that coming to terms with, you know, the end is not, not, you know, really close, but it's getting a heck of closer and I've got work to do. And you know, again, I talked about it earlier, this was just as much about a continuity plan and ensuring that the business was going to be sustainable long term even after I'm gone or my brother's gone or some of the other former owners are gone. And in order to do that, our job, our mission every day is to make sure that we're doing all the right things for our people.

Jeffrey Stern [00:41:44]:
Well, you mentioned it's not always a smooth sailing. I'm curious, when you reflect on the journey thus far, what do you feel sticks out as the most salient learnings that you've picked up over the chapters?

Jerry Schill [00:42:01]:
I just think you have to learn to embrace change. Change is uncomfortable. And it's funny because I force change in this organization every day and I hate when people do it to me. I got a new computer and I can't stand it and I didn't have a say in it, so. But I just think when, when you think about your business, if you are not humble and honest enough with yourself, right, and you don't listen to your people, you are not going to change. You're not going to change who you are and your business is not going to change. In fact, that probably both are going to go backwards. And I joked about it a little bit earlier.

Jerry Schill [00:42:36]:
I've always run hot, a little bit scared, knowing that somebody's coming. And you know, we're competitive family and we don't like to lose. In fact, I would argue we like to win more than we like money. So that's, that's kind of what is always kept us motivated. But in order to do that and stay relevant, you have to change. And the more uncomfortable it is, the more likely that you need to change to the point where it is uncomfortable or even painful. You know, you have to separate from people. Sometimes you have to separate from a customer.

Jerry Schill [00:43:11]:
At other times, you've got to make a tough decision that's going to impact people and their families. You know, you have to be strong and courageous enough to be willing to go through it for the greater good. This is no longer about any one individual or hundred individuals. This is about an organization of 1500 people that are counting on us to make the tough decisions every day.

Jeffrey Stern [00:43:37]:
In the spirit of lifelong learning, what do you find yourself most curious about today and excited to continue to learn about.

Jerry Schill [00:43:46]:
That's a tough one. Mindfulness. Hmm.

Jeffrey Stern [00:43:51]:
What do you mean by that?

Jerry Schill [00:43:54]:
So I take care of myself. I'm healthy. I exercise, I read. I am not. I'm never still. So the business is a big part of my life. I'm an empty nester. My children are adults now.

Jerry Schill [00:44:08]:
So instead of kind of slowing down as I've gotten older, I've actually sped up because I get bored. But finding ways to balance myself and slow down the brain, be more present. Take a break. And this is something I talked to Sanjay about quite a bit.

Jeffrey Stern [00:44:26]:
So I can imagine.

Jerry Schill [00:44:27]:
Yeah, but I understand. Like, I. It's been an amazing journey and truly feel blessed for everything that we've been able to do and do for other people. I want to start trying to figure out how to do more for myself. And it's a challenge.

Jeffrey Stern [00:44:43]:
It certainly is on this third mountain that you find yourself on when you think about giving back. I did want to ask about the holiday feast. It was something that Sanjay had. Had brought up and just what it's meant to you and where, you know, it kind of comes from in the spirit of it.

Jerry Schill [00:45:00]:
Yeah. There's a funny story behind it. My kids went to Catholic school and I picked them up and I was driving them home one day and we. I forget what we were talking about. Something got. We got into Christmas and they were just being ungrateful, you know, typical brats in the back seat. And it just came. Yeah, I just came to the conclusion like.

Jerry Schill [00:45:18]:
Like there's a gap here between what I want them to be like and feel like and. And, you know, strive to be versus all the stuff that I'm hearing in the back seat was more ungrateful and kind of entitled and everything. So I called around and was looking for some opportunities for the kids to volunteer or be volun told that they were going to volunteer. And what I found was it was. I don't know, A few weeks before Christmas or Thanksgiving and everybody was booked, they didn't need help. So I called my buddy, you know, and said, hey, like, what do you think the odds are pulling off like a Thanksgiving meal? Like, I need these kids to do something. He's like, oh, my kids need it too. So, you know, in the spirit of entrepreneurialism, we just said, let's do it.

Jerry Schill [00:46:05]:
And in two weeks we put together a Thanksgiving dinner. We had like a hundred people show up for to dine in with us. And these are the less fortunate and the lonely. You know, you get a lot of shut ins that are elderly and whatever. And then we had like 120 volunteer shop. So so over time I sent out one email to my Rolodex and said, hey, we're going to do this. Would love any support if you're interested in helping. And I received enough money to do all the holidays that year.

Jerry Schill [00:46:39]:
So we've been doing that for 15 years now. It's low key, under the radar, it's still self funded with, you know, my friends and network and colleagues and different things, but it's, it's really special to me. The kids are still really involved. We still cook everything from scratch and we still have a lot of the same volunteers that have been helping for the last 15 years and baking and you know, packaging and you know, anything you could think of for a traditional meal. And you know, I always, I would say it's, I love and admire the people that write the checks and do everything, but for me it was more about doing. There's time, talent and treasure and it's, it's important for me and I think it's, it's a way to kind of stay connected and stay grounded. And I think I appreciate so much of what I have more because I'm able to see what others do not. So it's, it's really a blessing for us to be able to kind of to go out and help people that, that really need it.

Jerry Schill [00:47:42]:
And a lot of our guests have been coming for 15 years too, so it's a, it's a lively bunch and most of our guests walk in, so it's a pretty unique demographic. And, and you know, when I, when I think about my life, it's just like if my kids can say, hey, he did good, then I'll be happy. That's all I'm worried about, just doing good.

Jeffrey Stern [00:48:05]:
That's pretty special. So holistically, when you kind of reflect on the whole journey that you've been on so far is There something that feels particularly important that we haven't touched on yet that you would want to surface.

Jerry Schill [00:48:20]:
I would say the one thing, and it's my bhag in the spirit of Jim Collins, is I want to build a billion dollar company. And not for the revenue, but for what we'll be able to do with it. For all the families that work for us, the people in the community, the things that we'll be able to implement in the business that are going to make our customers experience better. That's the goal, to build not just a better business, but a better community of people. And we can do a lot of good with that kind of money. And it's exciting. And if you'd asked me 30 years ago if it would have ever happened, I would have laughed. But I think the realization is more real today or that realization is more, you know, front and center today than it, than it ever was.

Jerry Schill [00:49:02]:
And you know what, we may never get there, but you gotta think goals.

Jeffrey Stern [00:49:08]:
Yeah. What, what would you tell yourself, your younger self, 30 years ago about where you are today?

Jerry Schill [00:49:15]:
Geez, we were probably so cocky. Stay focused, stay disciplined. That's not just, that's on a personal level as well. Like remember what's important and what matters. Family's still at the core of everything we do. You know, we're still at parents house on the weekends and being told what to do. But it's really fun, really good relationships with my brother. But even from a business perspective, because of, I know my personality, I'm very high strung, I'm the best 80% guy in the planet.

Jerry Schill [00:49:47]:
I don't really finish anything, but I've got a lot of really smart people that do. So just stay focused, stay disciplined and surround yourself with amazing people and there's nothing you can't do.

Jeffrey Stern [00:49:59]:
Well said. I'll ask you then our traditional closing question, which is for a hidden gem in Cleveland, something other folks maybe should know about that maybe they don't.

Jerry Schill [00:50:11]:
Yeah. So this was the hardest one, you know, I think for me because I never spent a lot of time like just running around like the metropolitan area, like I think Cleveland has an amazing, amazing assortment of these communities, whether it's Ohio City or Tremont or Lakewood. Now that I'm, you know, able to get out a little bit more, I just think it's like I'm always amazed at all the little kind of quiet wonders that exist in these neighborhoods and the things that we can, we can do right here in Cleveland.

Jeffrey Stern [00:50:43]:
Well, the whole place itself.

Jerry Schill [00:50:46]:
Yeah, yeah. One community at a time. I just think there's so much that it offers, and again, I've never been able to kind of. Or never chose to get out and enjoy it all until. Until recently. So I think it's a special place. I really do.

Jeffrey Stern [00:50:59]:
It certainly is. Well, Jerry, I just want to.

Jerry Schill [00:51:03]:
Would it just seem like an obvious answer?

Jeffrey Stern [00:51:06]:
Yeah, it's why no one really talks about that, actually. So it's a good one.

Jerry Schill [00:51:10]:
I love the lake.

Jeffrey Stern [00:51:12]:
Yeah.

Jeffrey Stern [00:51:13]:
Yeah, that. That you could go out on a boat.

Jerry Schill [00:51:16]:
Good stuff.

Jeffrey Stern [00:51:17]:
Well, Jerry, I just want to thank you for taking the time, being present, as you kind of alluded to, and sharing a bit more about your story. It's amazing what you built, so I appreciate the opportunity to learn more about it.

Jerry Schill [00:51:29]:
We've got an amazing team behind us. I'm just getting all the credit for it, so thank you. These are great podcasts. I've enjoyed listening to them. I've listened to quite a few now here in the last few months, so keep up the great work.

Jeffrey Stern [00:51:41]:
Thank you. I'll certainly do my best. If folks had anything they wanted to follow up with you about or learn more about the business, where. Where would you direct them?

Jerry Schill [00:51:51]:
Yeah, I'd go to the website and I'd be happy to provide the information, but jshilllandscaping.com happy to talk to you. Hit me up on LinkedIn private message me and I'll give you a call back.

Jeffrey Stern [00:52:04]:
Right on. Well, thank you again, Jerry.

Jerry Schill [00:52:07]:
Awesome. Thank you.

Jeffrey Stern [00:52:12]:
That's all for this week. Thank you for listening. We'd love to hear your thoughts on today's show, so if you have any feedback, please send over an email to jeffreyofthelandfm or find us on Twitter oddlehoftheland or Sternhefe. J E F E if you or someone you know would make a good guest for our show, please reach out as well and let us know. And if you enjoy the podcast, please subscribe and leave a review on itunes or on your preferred podcast player. Your support goes a long way to.

Jeffrey Stern [00:52:40]:
Help us spread the word and continue.

Jeffrey Stern [00:52:42]:
To bring the Cleveland founders and builders.

Jeffrey Stern [00:52:44]:
We love having on the show.

Jeffrey Stern [00:52:45]:
We'll be back here next week at the same time to map more of the land. The Lay of the Land podcast was developed in collaboration with the UpCompany LLC at the time of this recording. Unless otherwise indicated, we do not own equity or other financial interests in the company which appear on this show. All opinions expressed by podcast participants are solely their own and do not reflect the opinions of any entity which employs us. This podcast is for informational purposes only and should not be relied upon as a basis for investment decisions. Thank you for listening and we'll talk.

Jeffrey Stern [00:53:17]:
To you next week.