#229: Kaitie & Kyle Nickel (Cleveland Vibes) — All Things Positive in Cleveland

Kaitie Nickel [00:00:00]:
People overestimate what they can do in one year, but greatly underestimate what they can do in a decade. And I think that's about as true as it can get when it comes to entrepreneurship. Most people don't know how much work it's going to be to start something like this, and it's probably for the best or else you'd be too afraid to start. The naivete kind of helps you, but also can't imagine going back to doing anything else and would never quit. And so I think just going in with a little bit of faith and then just being but expecting to put in expecting to put in a lot of work has been a big thing.

Jeffrey Stern [00:00:32]:
Welcome to the Lay of the Land Podcast where we are exploring what people are building in Cleveland and throughout Northeast Ohio. I am your host Jeffrey Stern and today I had the real pleasure of speaking with Kaitlin and Kyle Nicol, entrepreneurs, storytellers and community builders based here in Cleveland. Kaitlin and Kyle have grown beloved Cleveland brands like Cleveland Vibes, the Cleveland Market and Cleaver leave to hundreds of thousands of followers, reaching many millions of people, all with the goal of connecting people, celebrating Cleveland's local culture and inspiring growth. Passionate about empowering small businesses and shaping Cleveland's cultural identity, they built a family business that blends storytelling, innovation and community into something uniquely impactful. In our conversation, we cover the origins of Cleveland Vibes and how it's become a platform for positive storytelling, how to build an audience of hundreds of thousands of people, reframing Cleveland's narrative and brand for a new generation, the evolution of social media into events, agency work and viral cultural moments and the lessons learned of building a family business and defining success through community impact. Caitlin and Kyle are doing incredible work telling Cleveland's story and so I'm excited to share a little bit of their story with you here today. Please enjoy. Lave the Land is brought to you and is proudly sponsored by Roundstone Insurance, headquartered in Rocky River, Ohio.

Jeffrey Stern [00:01:56]:
Roundstone shares Lay of the Land's same passion for bold ideas and lasting impact from our community's entrepreneurs, innovators and leaders. Since 2005, Roundstone has pioneered a self funded captive health insurance model that delivers robust savings for small and medium sized businesses. They are part of the solution to rising healthcare costs, helping employers offer affordable, high quality care while driving job creation and economic growth throughout Northeast Ohio. Like many of the voices featured on Lay of the Land, including Roundstone's founder and CEO Mike Schroeder, Roundstone believes entrepreneurship, innovation and community to be the cornerstones of progress. To learn more about how Roundstone is transforming employee health benefits by empowering employers to save thousands in per employee per year healthcare costs, please visit roundstoneinsurance.com Roundstone Insurance built for entrepreneurs, backed by innovation, committed to Cleveland.

Jeffrey Stern [00:02:53]:
I was just very much looking forward to this conversation because although I feel like it may seem we're working on very different things from the outside looking in, in a lot of ways, I feel we're kind of fighting the same fight here as non Clevelanders who fell in love with Cleveland and came to appreciate it for what it is. An opportunity centered around amplifying stories of people that are doing amazing things here and just highlighting all the amazingness of the city. And so I feel like grateful to have found kind of a kindred spirit in both of you and appreciate what you're building and excited to do for you, but I feel like you get to do for so many other people in Cleveland, which is platform to just share your story and what it is that you're building.

Kaitie Nickel [00:03:36]:
That's awesome. Yeah. No, I think Kyle's actually from Cleveland. Well, he's from the west side. He's from Bay. And we, we always say that. I think a lot of times Clevelanders need to take a little trip outside of the city and maybe live in another, you know, state for a while, another city for a little bit. And you really grow to appreciate all that Cleveland has to offer when you get to explore what other cities have and are missing.

Kaitie Nickel [00:04:01]:
And it's a pretty special place. I'm glad we're both here.

Kyle Nickel [00:04:04]:
Wild. It was wild when you moved here, Katie, because you. You saw the city just differently and I. Through a different lens and the kind of what the beauty that was just there already, you know, but people just saw it as the mystic on the lake. And so I think you helped reveal that.

Kaitie Nickel [00:04:19]:
Well, it is crazy coming from the reputation did not precede it. So I did that. Was that your experience as well, Jeff, where you didn't. What. What was your expectation coming into Cleveland? Did you think it was going to be amazing?

Jeffrey Stern [00:04:33]:
No, I didn't. I found that my lived experience here was very far removed from the expectations that were set and the perception that I think people have of what this place is and that when you come here in a day, you understand that it's very different from that. And therein lies the storytelling challenge and maybe the opportunity that I feel both of you have really taken in stride.

Kaitie Nickel [00:05:01]:
It was not at all what I expected. And I spent some time spent some time in and even Chicago, which I feel is pretty similar. People from Chicago hate when I say this, but I feel like there's a lot of similarities. And I got a lot of what I loved about Chicago from Cleveland, and I got to avoid a lot of what I didn't love about Chicago. I found that Cleveland did not have those, so. And obviously there's challenges living in any place, but I think it's horribly misrepresented. So we're happy to. To help correct the narrative.

Jeffrey Stern [00:05:36]:
So tell us a little bit about your story, Katie. Coming from elsewhere to essentially becoming Cleveland's unofficial hype engine. You know, here, take us through how that happened. What was the transition, and where did. Where did you begin to unpack the opportunity?

Kaitie Nickel [00:05:55]:
Yeah. Long story short, I moved to Cleveland when Kyle and I got married. We had done long distance our entire relationship, so I had only experienced it in small bites. But I had actually just dropped out of nursing school, and I was kind of in a point where I was. I knew the choice to go to nursing school was a choice of, I just like people, and I know I could find something for myself in there, but it really was coming from, like, probably a lack mindset, and I wasn't thinking about, you know, what I. What would be best for me to do. It's just something I knew was safe. So when I moved here, I just knew I wanted to be in something creative.

Kaitie Nickel [00:06:34]:
I knew nursing wasn't a great fit. And so I just started, you know, looking at what the. What my career. What I wanted my career to look like. And I.

Kyle Nickel [00:06:46]:
It was cool what you did. What you did is you had a journal and you wrote down all the things that you. That you were passionate about.

Kaitie Nickel [00:06:53]:
Yep. Yep. But I couldn't get a job. I couldn't get a job because I'm. I'm late everywhere. So I had to. Had to make my own. No.

Kaitie Nickel [00:06:59]:
But I didn't want to do events. I didn't want to do other people's events, but I wanted to make content. Instagram was just photography at the time. I loved photography and had a knack for storytelling, but I really had trouble fitting those skills into anymore. So anyway, I wasn't much thought into it, but I thought, oh, Cleveland's beautiful. And it's. I have friends who live far away who don't know, and I'm kind of stacking up a lot of photos of Cleveland on my phone, and I might as well just place them somewhere for other people to discover Cleveland. The way I'm seeing It.

Kaitie Nickel [00:07:32]:
And immediately people started following along. I found that most people felt like they were in need of a tour guide in the city and needed someone to take them around and show them. So right away, I saw that there was a need. And it's funny, over the years, we saw that everything that I wrote down in my journal that I wanted to do but couldn't commit to fully as a career all played itself out in this career. And I get to do a little bit of everything, and I get to be with people. So it's a big one.

Jeffrey Stern [00:08:00]:
I love how it immediately resonated because I think it speaks to the actual scale of the challenge. People are yearning for this positive Cleveland storytelling. And what is your sense about why. Why that that void hadn't been filled before?

Kaitie Nickel [00:08:22]:
Oh, man, you're gonna get me on a soapbox if you. If you ask that question. Okay, so my thought. My theory is there is. There is a misconception. There's a huge misconception about Cleveland. And it all stems from the fire in 1969. And a lot of people don't know this, but the fire in 1969 was purposely misrepresented, most likely by the media in attempts to drum up support for an upcoming bill, the clean water bill that, you know, is saving rivers everywhere.

Kaitie Nickel [00:08:55]:
A very noble cause. But the actual fire that happened in 1969 that got Cleveland dubbed the Mistake on a Lake was actually a super small river fire. River fires were extremely common in manufacturing cities. So Boston, Chicago, Pittsburgh, you name it, were also all experiencing this problem, hence the need for the actual. And so. And so Cleveland really did kind of fall on a sword and become a scapegoat for what is, you know, the modern day, like, clean rivers. We. We've kind of paved the way for that to happen and became kind of the name for, like, a city that's.

Kaitie Nickel [00:09:30]:
Is dirty. What we found is that most people don't know that. That it wasn't. That they weren't. That there wasn't anything exceptionally wrong with Cleveland. That there wasn't. That really wasn't. It was just a.

Kaitie Nickel [00:09:43]:
Kind of went viral, for lack of a better word, in a time where the news didn't. The news stories didn't move quite as quickly. And so even though it stuck, it really stuck with Clevelanders, too. And so getting Clevelanders to even say, hey, that's not us. That wasn't true then and it's not true now has been, you know, half the challenge.

Kyle Nickel [00:09:59]:
Well, I think. I think too part of that we were talking about Katie is like the one thing that I think a city is, is the stories that we tell about it. And if the stories we're always telling about Cleveland are the ones where we lost the fumble, the mistake on the lake, the fire, the, the. The burning fire, and these are the stories that we're talking about, we perpetuate that. And so I think one of the things Katie's always said is like, no true change comes without a positive mindset shift. And so, like, how do you show Cleveland beautiful first, right? And then people will start to see it that way because it just, it was already there. It's just like we were. I think there's a lot of this older generation that is choosing to see Cleveland as this mysterious lake instead of the humble.

Kaitie Nickel [00:10:44]:
It's. It's come. I think it comes from a place of humility. It's. It's self deprecating. And most of the time, you know, it's seen as harmless. But when an entire city is speaking these words over the city, you know, vibes is turned out to be the perfect name for it because it really is about just changing what the actual, you know, energy is here. And I think it wasn't just us, obviously in 2016, when we, when we were founded also there was a big championship that we took home.

Kaitie Nickel [00:11:12]:
You know, there's a lot of economic, you know, movement going on already, but we came here at the right time and there's. It looks like a totally different city than it did when I got here.

Jeffrey Stern [00:11:23]:
Yeah, beautifully said. I mean, that's. That is the importance of storytelling right there. It's like the best stories when it's upstream of everything else about the culture of a place as what gets repeated for better or for worse, but also like, you know, grounded in the reality. Like, I didn't know that the fire wasn't that big actually.

Kaitie Nickel [00:11:45]:
They used. They used. They used photos. This is fascinating. They used photos from a fire, I think 10, 15 years earlier. There's Sky 1950s, 2. There's skyscraper sized flames in the photo that they used to. But really at the day of.

Kaitie Nickel [00:12:00]:
People in the riverside didn't even know. On the bank didn't even know that it happened. It was very, very small, like something they quickly put out without a fuss.

Kyle Nickel [00:12:06]:
It wasn't even a picture of it, so they had to use a fake one. That's crazy. You know, like, that's crazy.

Kaitie Nickel [00:12:13]:
Yeah, yeah, it's good to know. That's good to know. So you can act accordingly, you know. That wasn't true.

Jeffrey Stern [00:12:19]:
Yeah. So, so take us back to 2016, when Cleveland vibes is born. I mean, that's when I moved to Cleveland. There was a tangible energy in the city that summer specifically, that was just unbelievably positive and awesome. But in the beginning, when you're beginning to post these pictures in the early days, resonates immediately. But at what point do you begin to think, maybe this has real potential? Maybe this can be more than a social media account? Can we take this seriously as an idea?

Kaitie Nickel [00:12:52]:
Kyle was working full time through, through the beginning of it, obviously supporting our family. And we had two small children at home all throughout the first beginning stages. So it started out as something I could do as a creative outlet I could do while I was home with my babies. But as they started to get older, I was. I took on another job as a stylist and I was working part time doing that. And yeah, there was a time somewhere around, I think 2019 is when we said, okay, this, something has to give. I'm either going full at it with Cleveland Vibes and quitting the stylist job and just, we're going to have to see if we can make it work. Then 2020 happened.

Kaitie Nickel [00:13:31]:
Everything kind of got with a big reset. The business really started to explode a few years later when my brother and his wife moved over. They've got children of their own, so we could kind of. Because I kind of reached still a point with capacity where with two kids of my own still home, that I couldn't do any more than what I had. So we got a point of capacity gun. And so my brother moved over. They have three children of their own, and Kyle and I have two. So the children, we started doing this kind of as a team, and they came on the Cleveland Vibes team as well.

Kaitie Nickel [00:14:02]:
And so it became this true family business. Kyle quit his job and went all in. And the kids would go. They're either with Uncle Kyle or they're with their titi or they're with their auntie stuff. And they're going, you know, they get to kind of have this like, communal childhood and we get to give them a supportive family. And. And the business got to really take off. Then that's when I remember going to.

Kyle Nickel [00:14:25]:
Delaware and talking with Stephanie and Mike about it, because it was like we realized that there was just too many.

Kaitie Nickel [00:14:30]:
I think you couldn't do anymore. I was maxed out.

Kyle Nickel [00:14:33]:
Too many inquiries coming in, too many people saying, like, we, you know, and it was cool. I mean, it was pretty wild to see it. You Know, just those emails coming in and we're just like, we need help.

Kaitie Nickel [00:14:43]:
It's not, it's not traditional to do it like this. Obviously working with family has its own set of challenges, but I will say that there's no way it could exist the way it does without that supportive system. We, you know, we couldn't have afforded childcare the way. The way we needed to and, and just it didn't look. It wouldn't have looked the way we wanted to anyway. So we're super grateful for that.

Jeffrey Stern [00:15:03]:
Kyle, what, what convinced you to, to make the jump?

Kyle Nickel [00:15:06]:
I mean, yeah, I mean a lot of the work that Katie and Mike had and yeah, the whole team had done before, but it was like. What do you think, Katie? What was that?

Kaitie Nickel [00:15:17]:
Well, it's a, it's an, it's an awkward business to be in, honestly. It's really non traditional and I don't. We're kind of laying our own landscape, I guess. I don't know if there, there's a better term to use here, but we're kind of like making our own rules and you know, building the car while we're driving it. So this, it's kind of an interesting. Lots of weekends, lots of evenings, but then also a good amount of busy work to do during the day. So it's got unconventional hours and it really kind of was an all hands on deck, you know, working a normal 9 to 5 while everyone else was living this super untraditional lifestyle. You were trying to do both mostly and it just wasn't working.

Kyle Nickel [00:15:53]:
And we, and we penny pinched dude to make it, to make it work too. Like we definitely moved in.

Kaitie Nickel [00:15:58]:
We moved in together. Yeah. With our family know for a while.

Kyle Nickel [00:16:01]:
So it's like we definitely. I think the, the big thing though was I was also at Boxcast at the time so I was at another startup here in Cleveland and kind of saw the rise of that company and it was like, you know, I think we could do this again, you know, and, and I think that's part of the reason I was like just the things I learned there from Gordon and the team at Boxcast to now, like it's. It's been pretty cool to put a lot of those into action I think with. Throughout our company.

Kaitie Nickel [00:16:29]:
Boxcast was your dream for a lot of years and I think you just started to recognize that your dream was shifting and you could. Yeah, but they're. It's an awesome company. Another great local business. I don't know if you've met them, Jeff. That'd Be a good one to come.

Jeffrey Stern [00:16:42]:
Absolutely. Gordon is shared his story and I'm sure would love to understand the entrepreneurial inspiration.

Kyle Nickel [00:16:51]:
He's definitely been a mentor to us. I mean, you know, we've talked to him a bunch of times.

Kaitie Nickel [00:16:54]:
He's still Kyle, he's still Colin. When you need some advice from someone.

Kyle Nickel [00:16:58]:
That'S been so grateful, I do, dude. Yeah. Yeah. So it's. He's a good guy.

Jeffrey Stern [00:17:03]:
So obviously Cleveland vibes today is much more than, you know, an Instagram feed. How do you think about what it is? Like, what is an overview of Cleveland vibes? How do you describe what it. What it is?

Kaitie Nickel [00:17:18]:
Elevator pitch. We're a digital media company that specializes in events in Cleveland or also does events in Cleveland. Digital media and events company, I guess is the quickest way to say it. We really fall under. We have a couple platforms that we. That we share content through, similar to what a magazine would like, would have done. You know, is what we're kind of meeting that need modern day. And then we have an agency that we help run social media for local businesses here in the city and help do larger campaigns to spring campaigns to Cleveland when someone's trying to make it make some noise here.

Kaitie Nickel [00:17:55]:
And then we have events and we do events at local businesses. And then we also have a huge event called the Cleveland Market that we run now four times a year. It's a kind of an in person representation of what we do online every day. It's the meeting place of community that loves Cleveland and the businesses that make it so amazing.

Jeffrey Stern [00:18:18]:
So growing an audience from zero to thousands now hundreds of thousands, reaching millions of people. How did you do that?

Kaitie Nickel [00:18:29]:
I would say marketing. Well, for one, the first we were. I was blessed that the first couple years that I got to do it, I was not doing it for any sort of. I wasn't doing it as a business. And so I got to really create a community without asking for anything from them. And I still. We still try not to ask for much, but just the relationship was completely just. We're just talking about our favorite places and that's all it was for years.

Kaitie Nickel [00:18:53]:
So I think getting to. I was really blessed that Kyle worked while I was able to do that and be with the kids and do that. So that's. That's a head start that I think it's cool too.

Kyle Nickel [00:19:05]:
But you know, for the years that Katie did it before ever being, you know, paid, she got to go meet all these business owners that are putting their heart and soul into the city and she Gets to speak encouragement into those people. And it's like. Because another thing that Katie says a lot is why do you people don't go to Minneapolis to go to Applebee's, right. They go to Cleveland. They come want the small mom and pop place, unique. Those are the small business owners that make it great. And so Katie got to go and just encourage them and you know, just a cool thing. I think that, yeah, that's the building of relationships you were talking about earlier, before the call, Jeff.

Kyle Nickel [00:19:42]:
It's just like it's all about relationships.

Kaitie Nickel [00:19:45]:
I think just approaching it. Even when now you are selling something, if you're talking about how to build a community online, even if you do have something that you're trying to promote, making sure that it's always a relationship and that's how you're thinking about it. This isn't a pedestal for me to talk at you from. We're asking questions, we're hearing feedback. I mean, our posts, how we decide what to post is based on how people react to it and if they like it and we want to give them more of what they want. So just making sure that you're always having the utmost respect for the people that you're trying to serve and just like treating, like remembering that they're humans. I think that's the best way to grow because I think a lot of times we overthink it and we start to think, go into copy and go into, you know, trying to formulate something. And I.

Kaitie Nickel [00:20:34]:
It's really just. There's just people on the other end. What would I like to see in trying to create content that I would want to watch? And I think that's my best advice for growing.

Kyle Nickel [00:20:43]:
I think our brand has like just a great message that I think people have been craving just that Cleveland is great, you know, and like a lot of Clevelanders love too. That's a big part of it. And I think also the networking has been a big part of our growth. When Mike got here and Stephanie got here, you know, just getting out first and just like you guys meeting with more people and just like I think that's been a big part of the success too.

Kaitie Nickel [00:21:08]:
Because I think especially in Cleveland, since it's such a small town vibe here.

Kyle Nickel [00:21:12]:
Yeah, absolutely.

Kaitie Nickel [00:21:14]:
It helps to get out and just meet people in person for sure. But for online growth now, we've grown up several accounts now, so I can't like the market appear pages at 30,000 and it's. But it's the same text, it's the same Every time, just create what you would want to see if you were looking for. If you were. You're. Everyone's scrolling. What's the. What is it that stops you.

Kaitie Nickel [00:21:34]:
That's the type of stuff, you know, that will draw someone else into and just trying to think of it with that mindset.

Jeffrey Stern [00:21:38]:
Yeah.

Kyle Nickel [00:21:39]:
I think one of the things Kitty said before, too, is like, if you have. If you want to post something that's funny, you have to laugh at it. If you want to make something sentimental. Do you actually feel sentimental when you watch this thing or do you not? Because you, you know, like. And that's built for feedback, but it's like you have to feel the emotion of what you're trying to draw out in the other. On the other side. Right.

Kaitie Nickel [00:21:57]:
Most of the standards are just too low. They say when you make a piece of content, it should be inspiring, educational. Inspiring, educational or entertaining. And if it doesn't hit at least one of those three things, then it's just a waste of space. Right. And just making sure that you're hitting at least one of those three every time other. Because I think the standards are. Sometimes people do it as a checkbox.

Kaitie Nickel [00:22:18]:
They know I need to post every day, so I'm just gonna put something out there and it's. You're too far removed now.

Jeffrey Stern [00:22:27]:
I mean, that certainly resonates. I feel like people often ask me, like, have you kept this going for.

Jeffrey Stern [00:22:34]:
For five years?

Jeffrey Stern [00:22:35]:
It looks like a lot of work, but to me, it feels like play. And I enjoy it. And it's like what I would want to listen to. And so I enjoy this very much. And if. If I'm like the. The audience first and foremost and, you know, I'm grateful other people appreciate it too. But I.

Jeffrey Stern [00:22:53]:
I feel like that. That has been at the heart of, you know, why this. This works at all.

Kaitie Nickel [00:22:58]:
Yeah. Don't choose a niche that you don't actually want to, that you're not actually passionate about. Is good advice because you're going to be talking about it a lot. And so having something you really care about, we really do. We just love the city. Kyle said the people that are making it, the people that we get to meet every day, like the, you know, boutique owners at Whiskey Grade we just were with 20 minutes ago. To the people at the west side Market, they really are just the best. The salt, you know, salt of the earth kind of people here in Cleveland.

Kaitie Nickel [00:23:28]:
And I think it really makes it easy to be their cheerleader once you.

Kyle Nickel [00:23:32]:
Get to know them as much as you Think like a city is your relationship between the spaces. It's really your relationship between the people that are within it. You know, like, that is, I think, the most beautiful thing about it.

Jeffrey Stern [00:23:44]:
Well, Katie, you mentioned a bit of building the car as you're driving it. And Kyle, before we started recording, you mentioned, you know, some of the challenges of the journey along the way. And so I'm curious, from an entrepreneurship perspective, when you think about Cleveland Vibes as a business, what have you taken with you as some of the most kind of salient learnings about what it, what it is to build a company.

Kaitie Nickel [00:24:07]:
Behind this movement, where to begin things, things we've learned along the way. There's one, it's. Oh, this one I got from Jackie Wachter from Fountain, and she said they're a leather handbag company here in Cleveland and they're having tremendous success now. She says people overestimate what they can do in one year, but greatly underestimate what they can do in a decade. And I think that that's about as true as it can get when it comes to entrepreneurship. You know, I think most people don't go in knowing how much work it's going to be. We were, I was just talking about this with some, some business owners we're working with. Most people don't know how much work it's going to be to start something like this.

Kaitie Nickel [00:24:50]:
And it's probably for the best or else you'd be too afraid to start. The naivete kind of helps you, but, but also can't imagine going back to doing anything else and would never quit. And so I think just, you know, going in with, with a little bit of faith and then just being. But expecting to put in. Expecting to put in a lot of work has been a big thing also.

Kyle Nickel [00:25:14]:
It's just better when you do it together. I think so many entrepreneurs probably fail because they're just so alone in it. But we're doing it as a family and it's like all of us are together in it. So we have, we have each other, but we also are the, you know, we also are. It's like it's. It's a wild. It's a wild man. That's the biggest thing is that we, I think that's been a big part of our success is just that we have, we've done it together.

Kaitie Nickel [00:25:37]:
Yeah. When once someone, someone's ready to quit, someone else is ready to keep, push, push them to keep going. It's good. We kind of cycle, cycle at. Who's the quitter right now who's ready to throwing the toe. But it's yeah, definitely the relationships. You can't do it without community. You can't do it without having people that uplift you and understand what you're going through in best case scenario or doing it with you.

Kaitie Nickel [00:25:59]:
I definitely agree. I'm trying to think if there's anything else for lessons that we've learned along the way. Marketing is everything. I mean every business that we come into contact with, there's so many products that you. Obviously this is a little bit of a self serving, self serving note, but it really is, it isn't about the businesses that succeeded. Doesn't seem like it is not completely about the product. It's not completely about the location even. It can be about who's willing to put themselves out there, who's willing to stand out online and take a chance in marketing and things like that.

Kaitie Nickel [00:26:35]:
I think really it goes a long.

Kyle Nickel [00:26:37]:
Way in 2025 delivered a lot of value. You know what I mean? Like to the. If you're delivering value, like I think we help people find places to go and what to do. That's another thing that, that, that I think we've, we've learned as a company is that like providing value to people I think is like the only reason that they, they enter into an exchange. And so I think it's, it's kind of cool to like be able to provide people with a lot of those amazing parts of the city and then get to talk to the business owners and it's just, yeah, a cool way to help people, I think. And the owners.

Jeffrey Stern [00:27:10]:
Well, I would be remiss to not ask about your hat, Katie, and would love to hear the Cleaver Leave story, you know, as a chapter in the Cleveland Vibes book.

Kaitie Nickel [00:27:22]:
So Kyle, you can, I mean you can speak to Cleaver Leave if you want. The name actually started with a podcast or a playlist that my brother Mike made when we were on. They were just visiting from Pennsylvania and I think he, he made the name of the playlist be Relief and we just had it on repeat for a bit. So then that's where the, that's where the name originated from. And he just made it up on the spot.

Kyle Nickel [00:27:45]:
I think the nature behind it, right. Like the word to cleave, right is to leave and hold on to something, right? It's like. Or you're like you're holding onto it and then there's the leaving like, you know, get out. So I think it's more of like an unabashed passion for Cleveland that's more like in your face, maybe. So it's more of a kind of dude centric brand where it's like, maybe it's more cars or sports or you can still have some of the Vibey stuff. But I think it's really more about like, yeah, people that are passionate about the city and like, it's, it's that kind of spirit of it that's a little bit more in your face than the Cleveland Vibes brand. But it's also, yeah, just a cool phrase that I think sounds sweet.

Kaitie Nickel [00:28:28]:
So, I mean, why not use so.

Kyle Nickel [00:28:31]:
If you believe, baby. I don't know. It's just a good name. So it is a good name. Mike had it as a Spotify playlist, I think, initially. But it was, we thought it maybe would be podcasting, but we didn't know what it was. But it was, it was our playground at first.

Kaitie Nickel [00:28:45]:
Yeah, well, Cleveland Vibes is extremely. We are, we are adamant about Cleveland Vibes remaining positive. If we do share something that is, maybe something tragic happened in the city, there's going to be a call to action that allows people to take part in the positive change. But other than that, we're strictly positive. So honestly, Cleaverly, the, the platform came from just needing another place to say things that were just not, you know, not all rainbows and butterflies. Maybe a little bit, you know, just showcasing a little bit more of the grit, a little more of the, the less glamorous sides of the city. It was another place to put, put that stuff.

Kyle Nickel [00:29:22]:
Well, I'm just so sick of other people talking crap about us. Like, how about, how about clap back a little bit? You know, that's what I think.

Kaitie Nickel [00:29:29]:
That's the, that's the a little more interface.

Kyle Nickel [00:29:31]:
But it's more that I think. I don't know, but it's, I think it's a great word for a great term and that brand for our clothing line and our merch there maybe more so than, than Vibes, as we kind of talked about Katie. So it's more. You'll. You could find it at the Cleveland Market on August 9th.

Kaitie Nickel [00:29:49]:
Only available at the Cleveland Market.

Jeffrey Stern [00:29:51]:
Oh, it's a, it's a great plug. I, I want to, I want to explore the, the creative playground idea a little bit and I'd love to understand how you, like, what, what is the creative process? Like what, how, where does Froggy come from? And like, how does that go from creative playground to what it is? Take it, take us through that I.

Kaitie Nickel [00:30:13]:
Will say it's coming from not. I didn't come from a business background at all. So everything has been kind of just been our imagination has kind of paved the way with this since we didn't really know what we're doing. So I think we've really just we're interested in what we're interested in and we post about it and that kind of tends to work out a good chunk of the time. And really in the case with Froggy, it was.

Jeffrey Stern [00:30:39]:
And what is Froggy?

Kaitie Nickel [00:30:41]:
Oh yeah.

Jeffrey Stern [00:30:41]:
For those who may not know, like me.

Kaitie Nickel [00:30:44]:
I know, I know. If you haven't, if you haven't been acquainted. So on Cleaver leave we like we said a little bit more of a playground. We get to have more fun with the content that we post over there. And so one of our content creator creators, my oldest brother Eric, was just having some fun. The Cavs were looking good early season and he had a feeling that they were going to be going on a pretty good win streak and so he put a meme out there.

Kyle Nickel [00:31:12]:
Yeah. Like a frog in China dancing with a weird song. Cavs 4 0. Not gonna stop posting to the casting.

Kaitie Nickel [00:31:20]:
Posting until the Cavs lose was the. Was the phrase on it. And but he didn't know how long it was going to be until they lost. So they went and they went on to go to what, 16, 0 I think.

Kyle Nickel [00:31:30]:
So that's 14 and 0. The initial win streak. 14 and oh I think or yeah, there we go. But the around game eight or nine, you know, the players were enjoying it as well and liking and commenting and fans were noticing that.

Kaitie Nickel [00:31:44]:
And then lots of positive feedback from the city.

Kyle Nickel [00:31:47]:
Yeah. Found a similar suit online, bought that puppy, started dancing around the city and then yeah, it was just a cool thing that like naturally, organically took shape and I think none of it made sense and that's what made it all.

Kaitie Nickel [00:32:05]:
We made, I will say as a business decision, I don't know that, that she was the best, the best choice but it really was such a like it just created so much joy where we were. We would take her out after a win and I say her because it's a, both the character as a girl and the person inside the suit and we take her out after the Cavs would win and you would see little kids go crazy. You would see college age like boys like that's a, that's a hard group to impress. Like they would go and go crazy for the middle aged people all the way to grandmas and it just was so Cool to see the city. Just so excited over something that was so nonsensical and positive. And so really it was just a fun thing. But it went absolutely viral. So it landed our brand on.

Kaitie Nickel [00:32:53]:
She was on SportsCenter. She was on Now.

Kyle Nickel [00:32:56]:
She had a collab with Takashi Murakami dropping I think in the next day or two. Right.

Jeffrey Stern [00:33:03]:
That's awesome.

Kyle Nickel [00:33:06]:
Was one of those things too. I think we learned about how to work as a team because it was a whole unit and not a lot of it made sense, but it had 92 million impressions across the Internet. And you know, we just leaned into where we felt like our energy was taking us and I think it's. It's been one of the coolest things we've ever done, but it was. We don't even really know how it. It happened.

Kaitie Nickel [00:33:29]:
We learned a lot from it, though. I will say we took a, we took a lot away from it. One, we learned that just because something doesn't make sense financially doesn't mean it doesn't make sense. You know, it was still really good for our brand and it made, you know, got people's attention. That's so funny. We were making beautiful, positive Cleveland content for almost a decade, but then we'd have people who had never would be like, hey, you're the fraud people. And you're like, you know, so it just, it crossed different boundaries. So there's things that can make sense for your business even if they don't make sense for the bottom line.

Kaitie Nickel [00:34:00]:
I think we learned from that. And then also just to be prepared for a viral moment, you never know, I think when you're in content and we hadn't, haven't had very many of them, it's been more of a slow climb. But to be prepared for when you have a viral moment, to know, you know, if something were to happen, you can, if this is how you're going to be ready for it, you've got to have this set up and you can have a Shopify and you can to find ways to capitalize for it so that now we know that much, we'll be that much more prepared if, if you ever get 92 million impressions again.

Kyle Nickel [00:34:32]:
And one of the coolest things about it, man, was just that it's this dancing frog after the Cavs games that would, that would dance. But the joy that people had from it, like 6 year olds to 80 year olds, didn't matter who it was in the city College people, like, there's not a lot of things that spark joy like that in people. This guy outside of. What was it we were at. Sorry. The owner of the Map room, the pizza place I was talking about, he goes, man, that, that thing brought so much joy to people and, you know, this city needs it. And I was like, dang, that's cool that we did that. So that's super cool, that whole point, right? Yeah.

Jeffrey Stern [00:35:09]:
But vibes. Bring in the vibes.

Kaitie Nickel [00:35:12]:
Vibes.

Kyle Nickel [00:35:14]:
I think it's just where you can take risks. I mean, I think a lot of times a brand gets really established and then you don't have a safe place to feel like you can actually be creative or try something new. And so we kind of started that page to like, have a place that more people could contribute and then grow and try the things out. And I think it's, you know, now it's kind of got my. It's a whole separate brand. And it's like we're thinking about how do we start other places for new playgrounds? Maybe we don't know, but it's. It's cool to. To have a place to do that as a, as a creative person.

Kaitie Nickel [00:35:44]:
The Internet is a creative playground, though, and the. You. You get rewarded for standing out. There's so much of content looks the same as you swipe through and you, you just don't get rewarded for fitting in. So I think that's how people should think about most of the content that they post is how to have more fun.

Jeffrey Stern [00:36:03]:
Yeah, I guess. How do you think about the ever changing social media landscape more holistically with the rise of new platforms? And just like, how are you thinking about staying innovative with regards to the Internet as a creative playground?

Kaitie Nickel [00:36:20]:
Early adoption is, early adaptation is. That's the key. Don't be stuck in your ways. I think half of what we do in our job is try to convince people that their marketing dollars really could be spent better even just on social media versus a traditional. A traditional platform, maybe we'll call it. And so I think it's really just shown me that like in marketing, if you aren't staying with current with the times, you do get left behind. And that's scary. But if you can have an open mind to.

Kaitie Nickel [00:36:54]:
To just whatever's coming in and not judge, then. Then I mean, you can do anything, right?

Kyle Nickel [00:36:59]:
Yeah. Or just even diversifying verticals, you know, having multiple different channels where you're growing. Our newsletter's been something that's grown over the years. You know, it's a very minor part of our brain currently that that is, I think, underrated. And, and I think people really focus their attentions on one place and, and I think that that's good because you kind of have to have a main one. But I think those side verticals have been something that's slowly grown the brand as well.

Kaitie Nickel [00:37:27]:
Yeah, being willing to learn too. I mean, yeah, it's just like I said, constantly changing. Yeah. The being willing to say, I don't know what I'm talking about here, but I do want to know more about it and go straight into.

Kyle Nickel [00:37:41]:
We're also students. Something we try to.

Kaitie Nickel [00:37:43]:
Exactly.

Kyle Nickel [00:37:44]:
We try to pay attention to what's going on. Sometimes we look at, okay, what are the, what are the other people doing that works well? What do people want? What do they look for? Like how do you kind of almost like a small feedback loop either internally as a team or internally like how are you, how are you making adjustments to really like that are reflected in what you know you're seeing gets rewarded. Right.

Kaitie Nickel [00:38:09]:
Because I was an expert. Cleveland Vibes started when Instagram was just pictures and captions. And I would have said that I was an expert at that. And if I would have said, okay, this is all I know how to do, then this is what I'm going to stick with. Then we would have never grown to where we are now. Reels was such a huge takeoff for our brand. So I think, yeah, just being open minded and just nothing that we do is that hard. I don't think there's anything.

Kaitie Nickel [00:38:35]:
Kyle's a drone pilot so that's got some skill and he had to do some, some serious testing for that. But most of what we do is, can be done by 12 year olds. So like just being, it's really just being willing to learn something, learn how to make something. A different type of content, a different how to add captions, how to add things like you know, things like that.

Kyle Nickel [00:38:56]:
I think is wild too because I don't even know it feels, even feels weird to talk about like us being successful because we don't feel successful in like the sense that like we aren't the best at our, in our families yet. We aren't the best in versions of what we could be doing. And we know that where we want to go, you know, I mean like we're not there yet so like we just know that like what success looks like. It's like it's hard to even talk about how do you do something when you aren't even sure if you feel like we've, we've been to where we want to go yet. You know what I mean? Where we're going as a business and the things that this division that Katie and Mike and Stephanie have for the market and for everything else that we're.

Kaitie Nickel [00:39:35]:
Doing, man, it's like we're just getting started.

Kyle Nickel [00:39:37]:
Getting started still.

Kaitie Nickel [00:39:38]:
Yeah. For real.

Kyle Nickel [00:39:39]:
I think that's the cool, that's the cool part.

Jeffrey Stern [00:39:43]:
Well, where, where are you going? What is it? What is that vision?

Kaitie Nickel [00:39:47]:
It depends on what season needs. It's always been, it's always been based on. On what the community needs. So it really is hard to say. But I will say that the Cleveland market has shown us that there's a need for more opportunities. Large, large scale events.

Kyle Nickel [00:40:04]:
Yeah.

Kaitie Nickel [00:40:05]:
Things. Things to do in the city and just that connectivity. So we're definitely looking in the next few years to. To expand that part of our business.

Kyle Nickel [00:40:14]:
Yeah, I think where we're going to. It's, it's. Yeah. I mean event events has been huge in the Cleveland market continue to grow that I think it's getting better at the things that we're doing well right now and just getting organized. And I think that's one of the, that's one of the big things. I think that where it's this kind of next for us is just doubling.

Kaitie Nickel [00:40:36]:
Down, just doing what we're doing, but doing it even better.

Jeffrey Stern [00:40:39]:
Is that how you think about what success looks like ultimately then the cool.

Kaitie Nickel [00:40:44]:
Thing is that I get to, I think success for it's multiple things because you can, if I, if we come become, you know, millionaires that we're miserable, I don't think I'm going to feel very successful. So to define it, I feel like you've got a. It's a. So many different. But for in the city we just want to do good and we've already gotten, we've already gotten to do a good amount of good. So I think from some standpoint we're. We're happy already.

Kyle Nickel [00:41:13]:
One that we'll continue to do. I think too that you can count on us doing is like this idea of putting the social back in social media. Like I think that we want to get people in the foot in the doors of businesses. We want to get people to the Cleveland market to support local businesses. We want to get people to go dance with Froggy. We want to get people to go in person to stuff and I think that you can count on that for sure. We'll still get people to support other Cleveland businesses and I think success for us is never ending there. But where I think we'll find Success is when we can also be able to maybe leave Cleveland one day and not, not actually, but like leave Cleveland in the sense that we're going vacation.

Kyle Nickel [00:42:00]:
We never go on vacation. So like when we, we're able to step out of our business. And I think we're so in it right now. We're so in it, man. And I think we'll be. When we, we can go visit other places and feel like we have the time, the time to do that. That's kind of.

Kaitie Nickel [00:42:14]:
It'll definitely feel more like success when we're for. If we're not If. Yeah, I get you.

Kyle Nickel [00:42:19]:
When we grow, when we grow big enough. Yeah, I think that we can have.

Kaitie Nickel [00:42:23]:
More passive aspects of the business or not feel like if things will fall apart when, if you disappear. There's always a goalpost.

Jeffrey Stern [00:42:31]:
Yeah. Well, I, I'll challenge you guys with another goal to, to add to your Herculean plate there. But I, I feel that. I feel success as someone who's also thought a lot about storytelling in Cleveland will be like when we can change people's perception about Cleveland. Like when Katie, like when, when, when you or, or I or whoever comes next can like come to Cleveland and have the accurate representation and not be so pleasantly surprised by coming to Cleveland. Yeah, I feel that that would be.

Kaitie Nickel [00:43:08]:
Pretty cool to correct that narrative. I love that goal. I love that goal.

Kyle Nickel [00:43:12]:
Well, it's cool because I think in a lot of ways, I think the, you know, the work that Katie and has done as our brand director and our founder like to get us to help change the perception in a lot of ways already just of what, what Cleveland is and could be for sure. But I think, but I think that, yeah, man, I think when we start seeing the city just thrive, you know, well, it's.

Kaitie Nickel [00:43:32]:
To me, there's no one. I mean, obviously there's no one account or one platform that could even say it to get it across. It really has to be just getting Clevelanders to adopt the mindset themselves so that they can. Everywhere they go, when they, when someone says, I mean, gosh, the amount of times you go out of the city and someone, you go, I'm from Cleveland. And they go, oh, I'm sorry. And making sure that, making sure that when that comes up, you say, oh, well, I love it. And this is. I'm actually really happy there.

Kaitie Nickel [00:44:03]:
And there's. It's got beautiful Metro Parks, three sports teams that you get to go and see some of the world class art museums. We've got. Playhouse Square is one of the best theater districts in the country and it's got affordable cost of living and it's right on the water. But I'm sorry that you haven't been. When people start responding like that and start giving people, giving the city that they're from the respect it deserves instead of just laughing along, that's when the narrative will change nationally.

Kyle Nickel [00:44:32]:
Yeah, it's true. The narrative is done. Changing nationally, that's a good goal.

Kaitie Nickel [00:44:38]:
That would keep us busy though.

Jeffrey Stern [00:44:41]:
Certainly will.

Kaitie Nickel [00:44:43]:
Small goal just change globally. Why not globally? Let's go, let's go. Let's change it all over the world.

Jeffrey Stern [00:44:50]:
How do you think about what the brand of Cleveland is and should be? Like, what is your opinion about what is the brand of Cleveland?

Kaitie Nickel [00:45:00]:
It's hard because it's so right now. Ohio got branded over the last two years in a really viral way where people were almost using Ohio as an insult. So it's crazy, crazy. It's a crazy time to be trying to brand Cleveland. But I think I. When I think of Cleveland, I think of the people that are from here and what they are, which is, which is just like humble. Humble is a big one. Grassroots, just really unassuming, sweet, kind.

Kaitie Nickel [00:45:38]:
I think that that's what the city feels like to me. A little bit more wholesome than your average city. A little more, more community mindset minded, more welcoming than your average city. Kindness is a big thing here.

Kyle Nickel [00:45:54]:
No, I think it's Emily too. It's interesting. I think we've talked, I've talked to a bunch of people too about what they think the brand of Cleveland is too. You know what I mean? And I think it's interesting to take that feedback from other people and help just try to represent that well in the brand itself. As we talk to these business owners and they tell us what the vibe is of the city, it's like we just try to I think emulate that in some ways too. Right. But it's, it's interesting because I said my friend Mikey Silas about this. Why do people visit cities, right? Like when you visit like, you know, why do you go to Nashville, Jeff? Like, oh, you would go there for Broadway, country music.

Kyle Nickel [00:46:31]:
Why do you go to la? You go to LA for Hollywood and the shopping. Shopping and shopping, right? You go to New York for the pizza dude and the again shopping. But the Broadway there. Why do people come to Cleveland? You know, I think, I think the answer that question probably for a lot of years was probably the Rock hall, right? And I think that there's maybe I've Talked to some people that think, oh, maybe the Metro parks. Like, we should talk about the Metro parks because the, there's land of 18,000, you know, 10,000 forests or whatever. But I think, like, what do you. I think the, the cool thing is, you know what I think the vibe of the city, personally, I think it could be, is like, let me just make this place a city of dreamers. Places where people can start businesses because it's affordable to do it.

Kyle Nickel [00:47:18]:
A place that like, you can have a low cost of living. And it's just all the amazing things we already know about Cleveland and get to feel and show ourselves online because we're experiencing it too, you know. And so I think that's a big part of that, that like, we get to represent the city as it, as it unfolds and as it changes as well.

Kaitie Nickel [00:47:40]:
Yeah, it's kind of rediscovering itself. What do you think of it? What do you think the vibe of the city is?

Jeffrey Stern [00:47:46]:
I love all of those. I mean, I feel it is. It's a good place to build. It's filled with warm, kind people, humble, modest, but with their own dreams. And I'm from New York, I go back all the time, and people there have a certain drive, certain ambition. And it's not that we're lacking that here, but I feel like what we're reconciling with is the mistake on the lake, self deprecation kind of history. But I feel that the brand today, like if you were to do it from scratch and not have to reconcile with like the baggage of Cleveland from the 60s or, or in. In kind of the, the hollowing out of the industrial era is what, is what you've just outlined.

Jeffrey Stern [00:48:47]:
It's, it's just like, it's a great place to be for. For all those reasons.

Kaitie Nickel [00:48:51]:
Does feel like the American dream a little bit. Is still alive a bit here.

Jeffrey Stern [00:48:55]:
It is. That's a, it's a wonderful sentiment.

Kaitie Nickel [00:49:00]:
It is.

Kyle Nickel [00:49:00]:
That is. Yeah. That's beautiful thing to think about.

Kaitie Nickel [00:49:02]:
Well, it's also a great place for family.

Jeffrey Stern [00:49:05]:
It's also a great place to raise a family that everyone talks about that too. Having not raised a family myself yet, I can't speak to it, but it, that, that. That is a perennial thing that people express.

Kyle Nickel [00:49:20]:
It is. No, and it's cool. You can like live in the suburbs and then drive downtown. Right. And then like, and you can kind of experience the city life in doses and can be it back. But it's also one of the things that I think is One of the, one of the, I think low key. Cleveland's an event based city. So people come into the city for events and then they leave.

Kyle Nickel [00:49:40]:
Right. And then they're. So they're, they're in the suburbs. It is a great place. But I think there needs to be more options for families to live downtown somehow. You know, like there needs to be a way for families to have, you know, more people down here for. For. Yeah, because I think it is an amazing place to raise a family.

Kyle Nickel [00:49:56]:
And I think that, you know, there's. Katie talks about the crime numbers in the city and how that is misrepresented because it's like it's such a. People that live in downtown Cleveland or in the city is so much less than the greater Cleveland.

Kaitie Nickel [00:50:08]:
If you look at it from on statistics, it's going to appear that Cleveland is a more violent city because the population of Cleveland proper is low in comparison to the instances of violence.

Jeffrey Stern [00:50:23]:
Well, 20,000 people live downtown. There's just like not that many people.

Kyle Nickel [00:50:28]:
Right?

Kaitie Nickel [00:50:30]:
Not that many people. So the amount of law abiding versus violent or you know, criminal activity, whatever it is, it makes it seem like it's high because there's just less people. But if you're actually looking at number of instances compared to Chicago, I mean, I felt much less safe there than it was just because it was much more common to see. So it's kind of one of those things where on paper it looks like this is an unsafe place to be. But I my own personal experience, I felt very safe and I love bringing our kids to the city. And obviously the suburbs are wonderful too, so there's lots of options. But between the Metro parks, the sports, the museums, the things to take your kids to, we've got amazing schools. It's located in a place that you can travel out of pretty easily and get to other parts of the country pretty easily as well.

Kaitie Nickel [00:51:18]:
So for raising family, I mean cost of living, lack of traffic so that you can spend your afternoon evenings with your family instead of sitting in traffic. I mean, these are all things that really contribute to quality of living. And when you talk about success, I think that has to be part of the conversation. It's just, am I even enjoying myself?

Jeffrey Stern [00:51:37]:
It's a good question. More people should ask, what's it all for? So we'll bookend it here then with some closing questions, but kind of just want to ask. When you reflect holistically on Cleveland vibes, what you two have been building over the last few years now, your personal journeys, is There anything that comes to mind as particularly important that we haven't talked about that you would want to express?

Kaitie Nickel [00:52:04]:
We've expressed our deep love for Cleveland businesses, our passion for the Cleveland community and how we think they're the best of the best when it comes to American people. We've talked about the importance of building your business with people around you to support you and how family has been uplifting in that. I know I wanted to speak to.

Kyle Nickel [00:52:25]:
That maybe I was going to add, like, it is pretty wild that we get to showcase all of these amazing businesses. Right. That, that like. And I think the core of what we're doing is like, we're just showcasing the culture of the city that's already here. Like, there's, there's. There's new businesses that are starting and the market does that. That Stephanie and Katie really are the like co creators of. But it's like, that's such an amazing thing.

Kyle Nickel [00:52:50]:
You know, think about the business that came out of the market and the like, the new businesses that came out of that. Right. And that the businesses that we support that are already here, business naturally going to go away. That it's just like those are the people that help, you know, make our business thrive. They are our customers, they're our friends. They're everything to like what we do. And so it's. It's cool to be able to just get to showcase the best of what they are.

Kaitie Nickel [00:53:19]:
Yeah. And create and co create what Cleveland culture is. I think that's a cool thing that like the businesses we've got. Stephanie and I were just driving around Lakewood and we saw one of our. The market businesses got its first location. It's first brick and mortar. And you know, hopefully the market had something to do with their success. Obviously it's just one piece of a puzzle of a business owner.

Kaitie Nickel [00:53:43]:
But getting to contribute to what I think we just want to invite everybody to remember that they're part of creating Cleveland culture. Like what Cleveland, it's going to look completely different in a decade. And so we're all getting to be co authors of Cleveland's story right now. And it really is looking for lots of authors. And so I think just remembering that you don't have to just look back and be a witness to it, that you're in a time where the city needs you to, to pick up your pen and. And you know, get in there too and whatever. I don't know what. I'm trying to stick with this metaphor for a while.

Kaitie Nickel [00:54:16]:
And the pen, it's good you know.

Kyle Nickel [00:54:19]:
This Italian philosopher is Italo Calvino, and he writes this book about Marco Polo that visits. I think it's like 50 different cities in Italy. And it's a fictional book. But what he. You end up realizing the end of the book, is that all of the cities that he visited, they're all unique and different and beautiful. They actually were all Venice the whole time. And I think that's crazy because you can choose to see a city differently based on your experiences the way that you choose, but that's your choice, right? Like, you can see the industrial. Maybe the parts of Cleveland aren't so beautiful.

Kyle Nickel [00:54:50]:
Or you can choose to see the moments, the opportunities. Like, there's a window across from our office that's got two smiley faces written in it. One of them is a smiley face. One of them is a frowny face. They're on both sides of this pane. That's window. And the storefront is available. Nobody's in it.

Kyle Nickel [00:55:04]:
And I'm like, you can either look at that storefront is one of those two ways, right? That it's either opportunity for growth, or you can look at it like the city is falling apart. It's about how you see it, right. And it's not about much more than that, I think, in some ways, right. Like, we got the choice. So. Yeah, I like that.

Jeffrey Stern [00:55:24]:
Wow, that's awesome. I love that. Well, I'm very excited, actually, for the traditional closing question, because I feel like there's no better people to answer it than both of you. But it's for hidden gems in Cleveland. Things that other people should know about that maybe they don't.

Kaitie Nickel [00:55:42]:
I can't say it's hidden. I don't know hidden. But cilantro taqueria is unassuming, always. If you're driving by it. There's. They have a few locations, so. But that's one that will change your life when it comes to, like, their street corn, street tacos, just bringing, like, a good authentic taco. Experienced.

Kaitie Nickel [00:56:01]:
They blend that.

Kyle Nickel [00:56:02]:
I want to try that. I haven't yet. That might be Hidden Gems, but we got invited recently to go to this place called. I think it's just called Whiskey Bar. And it's over by Harry Buffalo. And apparently they have 500 any. If you sell whiskey or bourbon in Ohio, they have it. 500 of them.

Kyle Nickel [00:56:18]:
And it's just over there and it's behind here below. And I'm like, no one knows about. This is the only place you can. And so I'm like, I haven't checked it out yet, but that's one I thought would be kind of cool. Also low key. I think Whistle Pizza is probably some of the best pizza in the city, hands down. Dude.

Kaitie Nickel [00:56:33]:
Yeah, nobody's talking about that.

Kyle Nickel [00:56:35]:
I'm sure that Hidden Gen, that is. But Hannah, he's been on Instagram podcast Dog, you know, it's great. It's fantastic.

Kaitie Nickel [00:56:42]:
It actually is really good. Nobody's. Nobody's talking about that. Asiatown's full of them. We love LJ Shanghai. People know about it now, but if you don't know where you're going, if you don't know Cleveland, then that's one that you have to hit. Same with Superior Pho. Amazing.

Kaitie Nickel [00:56:57]:
And you'll never. You would never see it. It's kind of back tucked behind. You have to go into a little plaza to get to it.

Kyle Nickel [00:57:02]:
So we look at this place, Mitzi Yerman's, which is cool. It's a. It's actually in midtown, but it's this. It's a Slovenian woman who owned it. Mitzi was her name. She. She was born in the bar and she passed away in it, but she lived in the bar that she worked in, and the bar is still the exact same, which point. You passed away in the mid-90s.

Kyle Nickel [00:57:24]:
And so it's just cool if you want to step back in time to part of. Of, like, the city's history that, like, you just don't see anymore. You know, there's no food there. It's just cheap beer, you know, and a bunch of the same locals that have been there for years. And I think those people are great as well. But Mitzi's is great. So. Yeah, those are.

Jeffrey Stern [00:57:45]:
These are awesome.

Kyle Nickel [00:57:47]:
But. Yeah, what's yours, man? We learn about it from people like, you know, we ask everybody. Where's your favorite hidden gem?

Jeffrey Stern [00:57:52]:
Oh, yeah.

Kaitie Nickel [00:57:52]:
Anything you stumbled upon recently? Since the last episode?

Jeffrey Stern [00:57:57]:
Since the last episode. Well, I'll give a plug. It is a little outside the traditional Cleveland boundaries, but it's where I'm going to dinner tonight. But I'm going back because of how good it is. But there's a place in Oberlin actually called Tiny Tie. Unbelievable. Unbelievable.

Kyle Nickel [00:58:16]:
Time we like over.

Jeffrey Stern [00:58:18]:
They. They actually did a collaboration with Cordelia a few weeks ago. And I mean, it's unbelievably good.

Kyle Nickel [00:58:29]:
Texas.

Jeffrey Stern [00:58:32]:
Would recommend. Yeah. But Kyle, Katie, I just. I just want to thank you for coming on, sharing your story. It's obviously, I love what you guys are doing. I think it's really important, and we just need more. More of it. So keep on.

Kaitie Nickel [00:58:47]:
Right back at you. Right back at you. We appreciate what you're doing and the podcast is amazing and we're honored to be on it. Seriously, the people you've had on here are some heroes to us, so we really, really appreciate it.

Jeffrey Stern [00:59:01]:
Yeah, it means a lot. Happy to have you. If, if people had anything they wanted to follow up with you about, where, where, where are you pointing them on the interwebs?

Kaitie Nickel [00:59:11]:
Contact clevibes.com is a good way to reach out. DMS email is probably the best way to get in touch.

Kyle Nickel [00:59:20]:
Be in person at the Cleveland Market on August 9th and 10th. Um, we also. Yeah, I think that's probably Find us.

Kaitie Nickel [00:59:27]:
On Instagram, Tik Tok, Facebook at Cleveland Vibes, and Cleaverleaf.

Kyle Nickel [00:59:32]:
Yeah, man, hit us up.

Jeffrey Stern [00:59:34]:
Perfect.

Kyle Nickel [00:59:34]:
We love it.

Jeffrey Stern [00:59:35]:
Cool.

Kyle Nickel [00:59:36]:
Thanks, bro.

Jeffrey Stern [00:59:37]:
Absolutely. Thank you.

Jeffrey Stern [00:59:41]:
That's all for this week. Thank you for listening. We'd love to hear your thoughts on today's show, so if you have any feedback, please send over an email to jeffreyoftheland fm or find us on Twitter oddlayoftheland or @ stern hefe j e f E. If you or someone you know would make a good guest for our show, please reach out as well and let us know. And if you enjoy the podcast, please subscribe and leave a review on itunes or on your preferred podcast player. Your support goes a long way to help us spread the word and continue to bring the Cleveland founders and builders we love having on the show. We'll be back here next week at the same time to map more of the land. The Lay of the Land podcast was developed in collaboration collaboration with the UP Company LLC at the time of this recording.

Jeffrey Stern [01:00:25]:
Unless otherwise indicated, we do not own equity or other financial interests in the company which appear on this show. All opinions expressed by podcast participants are solely their own and do not reflect the opinions of any entity which employs us. This podcast is for informational purposes only and should not be relied upon as a basis for investment decisions. Thank you for listening and we'll talk to you next week.

Kaitie Nickel [01:00:47]:
It.