#221: Ryan Kelly (Substance) — Building Cleveland’s Film Industry

Ryan Kelly [00:00:00]:
We're all dreamers. That's what's fun about this, is making something from literally a word on a paper to something that somebody can watch and take in and process and the dream of making those things real. If the dream dies, then it just becomes work. And work is fine. But I never want to stop creating and dreaming, so. So that's what I'm going to keep doing and that's what keeps the entrepreneurial spirit alive inside of me.

Jeffrey Stern [00:00:33]:
Welcome to the Lay of the Land podcast where we are exploring what people are building in Cleveland and throughout Northeast Ohio. I am your host Jeffrey Stern and today I had the real pleasure of speaking with Ryan Kelly, filmmaker, an entrepreneur and the founder of Substance, a film and television production company based right here in Cleveland, Ohio. What if Northeast Ohio had the infrastructure to support large scale film production? That question first took root when Ryan found himself on the set of Cherry, a feature film shot in Cleveland, Ohio by the Russo brothers, acclaimed Cleveland born and raised directors behind films like Avengers and Captain America, soaking in the experience of working alongside Hollywood heavyweights in Ryan's hometown. What follows has been Ryan's relentless pursuit of realizing that vision and building up Northeast Ohio's film industry. Prior to Substance, Ryan co founded TR RG Sound Envision alongside industry veterans Adam Wilde and Jeff Yacht, which boasts one of the largest sound stages in the Midwest, 160,000 square feet of studio space, a virtual production wall, a 40x60 cyclorama wall and 40 semi permanent sets with the skilled industry professionals a large production demands. As a filmmaker, Ryan is the director for the docu series Wrestle her, which tells the stories behind sanctioning high school girls wrestling in Ohio and the generation of athletes growing in the sport. Ryan's journey is an awesome melding of artistic conviction meeting entrepreneurial grit. In our conversation, we explore how Ryan carved a path into the film industry from scratch as a touring musician and drummer at the time.

Jeffrey Stern [00:02:19]:
What he learned from working alongside others in the industry like Transition Studios, whose story was shared by Sean rech in episode 85 of Lay of the Land and how Ryan thinks about creative risk storytelling and making Cleveland a real contender on the national production map. So please enjoy this wonderful conversation with Ryan Kelly. Lay of the Land is brought to you and is proudly sponsored by Roundstone Insurance, headquartered in Rocky River, Ohio. Roundstone shares Lay of the Land's same passion for bold ideas and lasting impact from our community's entrepreneurs, innovators and leaders. Since 2005, Roundstone has pioneered a self funded captive health insurance model that delivers robust savings for small and medium sized businesses. They are part of the solution to rising healthcare costs, helping employers offer affordable, high quality care while driving job creation and economic growth throughout Northeast Ohio. Like many of the voices featured on Lay of the Land, including Roundstone's founder and CEO Mike Schroeder, Roundstone believes entrepreneurship, innovation and community to be the cornerstones of progress. To learn more about how Roundstone is transforming employee health benefits by empowering employers to save thousands in employee per year healthcare costs, Please visit roundstone insurance.com Roundstone Insurance built for entrepreneurs, backed by innovation, committed to Cleveland.

Jeffrey Stern [00:03:44]:
I'm not entirely sure there is a conventional path to filmmaking, but I know you have spent many years on the road as a punk rock musician, you know, before making the jump into filmmaking and, and I would love to understand what that jump looked like and how you feel punk rock shaped your experience and prepared you for film and for storytelling and entrepreneurship.

Ryan Kelly [00:04:09]:
In music logistics, you know, the same principles are followed. You are, you're making art for the sake of making art, and then there is the business side of making art as well. And music, it's, you know, promoting the music that you're making, whether it be a live show or, or recorded, you know, album, and then you're selling it as well. Same kind of principles, you know, that filmmaking relies on as well. They're both punk rock, like, they're both hard. Music is hard as hell. And so is making movies. Whether it's a short five minute movie or it's a, you know, an epic or documentary that's taken four and a half years, you know, it's all hard.

Ryan Kelly [00:04:58]:
It's just how hard you plan on working at it. So getting from music and transitioning into film, I was just able to apply kind of the same principles into a different art form essentially. You know, at my core, I'm an artist. I love to create and I love helping other artists create. So for me, the transition, I understand it a lot more than somebody that was just probably right off the rip, like trying to get into it. Yeah, both on the creative side and on the, on the business side, it just becomes more of what are procedurally the differences. And instead of there being musicians and managers and labels, there's producers and designers and directors and actors. There's no conventional way to do one thing to the next.

Ryan Kelly [00:05:58]:
For me, it was music I felt at the time had run its course for what I wanted to do with it and where I wanted to go and some successes, some failures, you know, as with everything. But I felt Content with my life as a musician and working random jobs. And I really wanted to sink my teeth into something new that was hard and that was still within the art world and that it kind of became a natural progression into film. My first thing I did was I directed a. Co directed, I should say, with a music video we did with my old band. And I wrote the direct the video with a company called Fusion Filmworks. And they were just so wonderful to work with. And I got along really well with their entire crew as the whole band did that.

Ryan Kelly [00:06:49]:
We just did a couple more things together and then I kind of wanted to, I wanted to learn more about their craft and how they were doing things. And then I was able to go back to school and get a. And I wanted to get a film degree. So I went to Cleveland State and got a film degree and learned I think, how to, how to network. The best thing I learned, which is in our business is, is the one thing is impossible to teach, but it isn't absolutely necessary to learn. But yeah, we, I went to film school and met a lot of people and talked to a lot of people. I can jokingly say I got the lay of the land essentially from, from all the professionals around town and then, you know, kind of spread my wings out a little bit further outside of the city and, and come back all the way back. And yeah, kind of got me to where I am today.

Jeffrey Stern [00:07:42]:
In your exploration of the industry and the business of filmmaking, in your proverbial trying to get the lay of the land, help us understand what the world of filmmaking looks like, how you think about it, who are the players? What did you take away from that study of the industry?

Ryan Kelly [00:08:08]:
I wanted to know who was serious about this, who wanted, whose career was this and then whose hobby this was, who was taking filmmaking seriously as not only an art form but as a business, and who was just with their friends on the weekends making a short movie. There's, there's benefits to both of those. So I spent a lot of time in both of those worlds making a couple short films and also starting to work with folks that were making bigger productions and things like that. And I essentially, I wanted to go alone. I mean my, everybody, as I'm finding out now, as I'm more into the business now and a little bit more established, but as like people like me, as they're first starting off, they wanted to conquer the world. They want to do everything. When I first started off, and the Cleveland film hero, Mike Wendt will gladly back me up on this, but I was annoying. I was like, I'm gonna do it all.

Ryan Kelly [00:09:08]:
I'm gonna do everything. And I sat down with every single person I could, and I. I sat down with the film commissioner at the time. His name is Ivan Schwartz. And I sat down with him and I said, can I do this? And he was like, nope, you're not gonna be able to do that. And I was like, okay. And he wasn't wrong in some aspects. He was.

Ryan Kelly [00:09:23]:
But he was. He had seen somebody like me a thousand times, and it was Becomes at that point, okay, how am I going to differentiate myself from everybody else? How am I going to talk to different people to not get. To not stop getting no's, essentially, and then to find the right path? And that's kind of. Essentially that. Where. Where it led me, there's a lot of trial and error and a lot of talking and having people say no, that's. That's someone doing that already or they're doing it fine. It's like, all right, do I want to do it better? Do I feel like I can do it at all? I don't know.

Ryan Kelly [00:09:58]:
And then you just kind of trial by narrow, get to where you are, and that's, I think, at large for the entire industry. It's. There's so much trial and error and failure and falling on your face and meeting the right people, meeting the wrong people, and you just have to kind of sift your way through that to find kind of your tribe, if there is a tribe or you just run on your own. You know, with me, I'm. I'm lucky to have found my tribe, essentially, but we all kind of run alone as well, so Cleveland and the. And the industry are just very similar. There are. There are people that care a lot and try very hard, and there's almost a club mentality where it's like, if you're not going to work and try as hard as we are, then enjoy, you know, doing what you do.

Ryan Kelly [00:10:50]:
And then there are the folks that just enjoy doing what they do, and that's. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that, but that's. I'm. This is my career. I take it very seriously. I'm trying to build something bigger here with my partners and our community.

Jeffrey Stern [00:11:06]:
Who is your tribe? Who did you find here locally that, you know, kind of helped steer you in the. In the right direction?

Ryan Kelly [00:11:12]:
Well, my partners are, obviously, I have great respect and love for my two partners, Jeff and Adam. Jeff Yaw and Adam Wild. Adam is the owner and CEO of TRG Multimedia, and Then Jeff is our partner. In substance, the three of us are almost like a three headed monster. We all do very different things, but we interact with each other very well. And I think that we, over the last two years that we started this company have kind of figured out how we work with each other and how it's become very smooth and very easy to work with them versus being on your own and trying to find, you know, going from job to job to job and trying to figure out who you mesh well with or who you don't. It's three of us work, just work really well together. So Adam has a built in tribe at trg, obviously a lot of brilliant people that work there.

Ryan Kelly [00:12:12]:
And so that's kind of has become our tribe. Not to mention, you know, the film community in Cleveland is very tight knit. Everybody kind of knows each other. Most people respect each other and work together on various projects. And when the big things come in, a lot of the good talent gets soaked up into that. So it's a really great community. So I would, you know, the whole city is really a tribe essentially. But you know, my two partners and I, and then are kind of our immediate connections are, you know, we're all kind of have the same goals in mind.

Jeffrey Stern [00:12:50]:
Yeah. So I think we'll revisit, you know, the, the idea and your path for.

Afif Ghannoum [00:12:56]:
Breaking into the industry itself.

Ryan Kelly [00:12:59]:
Yeah, sorry, I'm long winded sometimes.

Jeffrey Stern [00:13:01]:
No, it's all good. It's all good. And you know, I want to hear about what you learned from the Russo brothers, what you learned from Sean Reckon with Transition Studios, who also was a guest on Lay of the land maybe 100 episodes or so ago. But just to kind of ground all.

Ryan Kelly [00:13:16]:
Of that, you couldn't talk about two completely different film filmmakers.

Jeffrey Stern [00:13:21]:
No, I know, and I can't wait to get your perspective on that.

Ryan Kelly [00:13:25]:
Let me talk about the Sean and the Russo thing. After I graduated college, I started. I did some short films and was working with a couple different companies and I wanted to do my own thing and I wanted to self produce and I wanted to learn to build things up myself. And I had no desire to work on big projects. And I was just going to work a regular job and I was going to, you know, just do whatever I could to make my own things and build up my career that way. Then when Cherry came through, the opportunity came that I could work on that film and I took it. I started off, you know, as delivering lunches and I think the second day of production, whatever, the UPM pulled me aside his name is Victor Ho. He's a wonderful man.

Ryan Kelly [00:14:25]:
And he pulled me aside and he said, you're not doing this anymore. You're nice. You're. You're with me. You're with me now. So I said, no, you know, this is my job. I'm going to do it, but I will happily be with you. And so I literally got a front row seat to watch an entire production from a UPM's perspective and a production manager.

Ryan Kelly [00:14:44]:
And I got to know the producers very well and I got to watch the Russo's direct, like, just watch them work and watch them interact with their producers and with their, their, their teams and just grew up, had a great relationship with everybody on set and just felt very good and felt like, okay, this was in. I was in the right place. And then I had thought about going out to California. I went out to the Russo's company and I interviewed there. I was looking at apartments in Pasadena and like, everything was kind of, you know, I was, I had this whole kind of idea in my head of the way things were going to go. And then Covid decided that nothing was going to happen and shut everything down. And so at that point, I kind of reverted back to my initial thoughts, like, okay, let's do this myself. And so we were doing whatever we could during COVID Obviously I was, you know, getting certified and all the different things that people did during COVID and just trying to figure out a way to make films and make tv.

Ryan Kelly [00:15:55]:
And I ended up. I had met Sean Rec at a different event. I think he came and spoke once. I Cleveland say, but I met with him and then. So I had this project that I thought might be good for his agtb. So I brought it to him and I said, hey, do you. There's a bio on a guy that lives down south. He's a great guy.

Ryan Kelly [00:16:20]:
And he said, no, you know, it doesn't really fit AGTVs, but, you know, maybe this might be better for Transition. Here's what I'm doing at Transition. And then I was like, oh, you're doing some interesting things. And then him and I just kind of started working together. And then he, like, he said, you know, hey, I'd like to bring you on staff and have you here as my VP and, and CEO and you can kind of build this thing up. And so I pulled him out of Strongsville, put them downtown, and started building Transition up. And as Transition grew and had, you know, some, some, some great projects that they were, they were making, the company grew and and expanded and started to get really big and things like that. And then he started to do True Blue.

Ryan Kelly [00:17:13]:
We launched True Blue, his streaming network, and sold Convicting, which was a big ten part series. And we did all those things. And then it kind of, Sean and I's kind of path just kind of hit. We got to where we were both like, okay, it's run its course and it's time for me to go and do something else. And so we parted ways respectfully. And I still own, I'm still a good relationship with Sean and still a majority shareholder in True Blue. And. But it was definitely time what he was doing and what I wanted to do were very different.

Ryan Kelly [00:17:55]:
So it just became a situation where, all right, I'm going to, I'm going to get back into making films. And I had a TV concept that I was working on and I had a random conversation with a very high powered film television individual. And that kind of led me to a friend of mine who is Adam Wilde, who owns TRG Multimedia. And Adam and I have been friends for quite some time, but we never mixed our, our work with our, our friendship. And I went to Adam and I said, hey, there's, I've got some, got some good things here. I think that if you're ready to kind of spread your wings at TRG and I think we might be able to do something a little bit better. And TRG is a, is a 160,000 square foot soundstage commercial monster content machine. You know, that 40 semi permanent sense is a giant virtual production wall that we put in now.

Ryan Kelly [00:19:07]:
It's just, it's an absolute machine monster. And he said, yeah, let's, let's do it. And at the same time, another Cleveland creative, Jeff Yaw, became available and he was gonna, he was gonna walk away from the business. And I called him and I was like, hey, I've got, this is what I'm, I wanna do. And I think that I could definitely benefit from having you around. And then Adam kind of doubled up on that as well. And that's how TRG Sound Envision was formed. We had some great projects and we were utilizing the TRG team of creatives and you know, everything has been going good so far.

Ryan Kelly [00:19:57]:
And we got to a point where we're starting to spread out a little bit further and spread our wings into some bigger co productions with national production companies and opening up the soundstage to bigger productions. And now we are in week three of a pre production on a multimillion dollar film and it's Just sky's the limit and we're doing what we need to do.

Jeffrey Stern [00:20:23]:
So you mentioned earlier on that you feel at your core that you are an artist. And I'm curious how your understanding of being an entrepreneur has kind of dovetailed with being an artist and where those two things converge. And how do you think about the.

Afif Ghannoum [00:20:41]:
Relationship between those two?

Ryan Kelly [00:20:44]:
Well, I'm still, I mean, I still play drums, you know, I'm about to. I, I, I, I started a band with some old, very old friends of mine just for fun, and it's been great. And we're putting out a record this fall in September. But anyways, it never goes away. Like the, I will always have to play drums. And it's, that's my, my outlet to always create. That's the artist inside of me that always wants to make art and make music or films or whatever the, the entrepreneurial side is, you know, I'm, I'm a dreamer. Like, we're all dreamers.

Ryan Kelly [00:21:23]:
Like, anybody here. Like, we, I have the, like, all the cool that comes along with making movies is like, that's what, that's what's fun about this, is making something from literally a, a word on a paper to something that somebody can, can watch and, and take in and, and, and process. And it's just like, and the dream of, of, of making those things real. And that's what's the entrepreneurial part. And if the dream dies, then there's no, there's no, it just becomes work, you know, and work is fine. But I never want to stop creating and dreaming, so that's what I'm going to keep doing, and that's what keeps the entrepreneurial spirit alive inside of me. I don't even know if that answers your question properly.

Jeffrey Stern [00:22:26]:
No, I love that answer.

Ryan Kelly [00:22:28]:
Okay.

Jeffrey Stern [00:22:29]:
I feel like that's a deep philosophical truth in there.

Ryan Kelly [00:22:32]:
That's the truth. Yeah.

Jeffrey Stern [00:22:35]:
So everyone listening, watching is going to be familiar with content movies as a consumer. I mean, surely many people watch a lot of movies, perhaps even some that you have been involved with, and we can talk about some of those as examples. But I'd love to understand a bit about the business of movies and film. Obviously, big movie like Superman, filmed in Cleveland, very exciting. People are gonna watch it, they'll buy it, buy some popcorn, you know, et cetera. What are the categories of the players, the studios, the distributors, like the people involved that are required to have a movie come to fruition? And where do you position yourselves in that ecosystem?

Ryan Kelly [00:23:27]:
I mean, it's a business, you Know, it's a business. It's the entertainment business. This is a business. It's like, you know, it's a restaurant. We have to make good food or people are not going to come to my restaurant. We have to. Movies, television, TikTok. I mean, I don't want to say TikTok or Instagram because that's all just slop anymore.

Ryan Kelly [00:23:50]:
But you have to treat it like a, like, like a bit like you are like a business. If they, those things, those other companies right now especially our business is changing so rapidly with everything and it's been a very, I mean, to make movies and television, this space right now is very, It's a risk. And it's not just, you know, locally here, it's across the board, but that it's a business. And so people are going to keep figuring out what to do and how to do it and to make sure that they keep creating and keep making the business go. So whether it's, you know, something as big as Superman or something as, you know, like that, you know, a small little reality show, it still has to. People still need to work and it still has to do well or else it won't, it won't survive.

Jeffrey Stern [00:24:52]:
So help me understand how you think about your barometer for quality, like what stories are worth telling? How do you. With the risk inherent in what it is you're doing? How do you think about risk management? What is your strategy for, for what to work on, given you could literally build anything?

Ryan Kelly [00:25:16]:
Well, that depends on who you're asking, to be honest. If it's me, if I like it and it keeps my attention, then I would look into it. All of our projects that we have right now are things I would potentially watch on television, which is huge to me. The movie that is in here right now, when I read the script, it's my kind of film. And I was like, this is. And then I look at like what's surrounding it and who's attached and you know, the director who's a super smart guy, and it's like, yes, we want to be involved with these people. This is what we want to be involved with. So not only is the story great, but we just want to work with those people.

Ryan Kelly [00:25:58]:
And the same goes for the stories that we have. It's like the stories are just beautiful. They're great stories to tell and they, we feel that they have the power to change lives or to affect people. So it, it just depends on. I mean, obviously it's a case by case basis, but at the end of the day. It's like, you know, do. Am I going to. Am I going to watch it? Am I going to care about it? Is it gonna.

Ryan Kelly [00:26:29]:
Could it affect me? Sure. Then, yes. Then that will make it to the, you know, is it good business? Is it. Is it something people could be potentially looking for? Is something the network could be looking for? Yes. Okay. And then that moves it on. So there's a variety of different things, but at the end of the day, it's like, this is. This is cool.

Ryan Kelly [00:26:48]:
Like if it's cool and it's. I like it. It's like music, you know, it's like there's some music that's. Yeah, it's like, I love some music. And so I, you know, I. I go to shows all the time. It's like, if I love the band, I will go see their show, I'll buy their record, I'll buy a T shirt or poster, whatever. If there are some that I won't, but I'll still listen to, you know, it's.

Ryan Kelly [00:27:11]:
If. If you really are drawn to it, then you will do what you can for it. And that's kind of the same way when it comes to picking projects. If I'm really drawn to it or if we're really. It makes a lot of sense and yeah, we'll go for it sometimes there's huge risk in that too, Jeff. Like, there's like, you may believe that what the story you're telling is super important and people don't care. So there for you to explain your enthusiasm and your feelings toward the subject is some is the chance you may not get the chance to tell that. And, and so you have to show, which is especially from where we are in Cleveland and getting things out in Hollywood and things like that.

Ryan Kelly [00:27:57]:
It's. It really becomes a less of a, hey, here's a project. Do you want to buy it or not? It becomes, hey, this is why we believe in this. This is why we did this. This is why we're paying our own money to make this happen. You know, those are the things that we are. This is why we're so passionate about the stories that we are telling.

Jeffrey Stern [00:28:19]:
Let's pull on the Cleveland Hollywood tension and that thread. It came up in your own personal journey. I'm sure it is pervasive in the industry writ large, but I know at the same time that you have an opinion about Cleveland's position and does it have the ingredients to be the production hub that I think you imagine it can be. What is your perspective on that tension and where Cleveland is and what the raw ingredients are that are required to make it happen and maybe where the gap is, where our strengths are. Talk about that tension.

Ryan Kelly [00:29:00]:
I mean, we can make anything here. We have everything that any other major city would have as far as a location. You know, we've got a big lake. We've got, you know, the metro parks. We've got city that can turn in anything. We've got suburbs, We've got a soundstage. We've got, you know, of everything. I think the infrastructure is the one thing.

Ryan Kelly [00:29:27]:
We have a huge amount of people that are. That live and work here. We could always use more relies on people like us and TRG mostly to. To build that infrastructure. And that, you know, that's one of the things that the film commission does is, is they. They train and get people into the business, and then it takes people like us that bring in the jobs to. To keep them moving forward and the Supermans and things like that. So the attraction.

Ryan Kelly [00:30:00]:
I mean, Cleveland has everything. It has. It could choose more people, but I think there's enough here to at least that ball can be rolling. And the tax credit helps, obviously. It's a huge thing in Ohio. It's a huge thing in the industry. Like, they. The production companies, they look for those tax credits.

Ryan Kelly [00:30:23]:
They look for. They're creating temporary jobs for an extended period of time, and they're just looking for a little bit of break in their budget so they can make things bigger. And that's. Some people are for it, some people are against it. I'm for it. I think it's a. I think, you know, we should have a level playing field with Atlanta's and the Los Angeles is and things like that. I think part of my job, not only as a Cleveland film producer, but also just as you know, in my company, is to attract films here.

Ryan Kelly [00:30:57]:
And I was just in Los Angeles and Atlanta for the past almost month having different conversations with different production companies, not only about our projects, but about our place and about Cleveland and getting people to come here and seeing that there's a tax credit here, there's a crew here, there's a crew base. There's, you know, the essentials that they would need to make any kind of film here. There's the Supermans and the White Noises, but there's also the, you know, the Kings of Summers and the Arnie and the, you know, there's. There's all different. It can support every kind of different budget level. So Cleveland can be whatever it wants, but just you know, this support from the state and tax credits. We have all these things here as attractive. You know, it's attractive to production company to come shoot.

Ryan Kelly [00:31:47]:
Here in Cleveland, the cost of living is low. The cost of productions is. It's less than one of the major cities. But the tax credit is kind of a beacon, and it helps that kind of thing as well. So Cleveland, catch it. It's just got to be. It's just got to get here.

Jeffrey Stern [00:32:03]:
You mentioned your kind of aspiration to just keep building. I am curious, what is the scale of that ambition in the context of Cleveland and where we are and where you see.

Ryan Kelly [00:32:18]:
Yeah, I have brass rings, for sure. I have a couple goals that I've shared with my partners. I don't know that. I don't know that I can. Singularly. There's gotta be more than just us and the handful of producers that are making things around town right now. There has to be more. But, I mean, I have aspirations to.

Ryan Kelly [00:32:43]:
And goals that I'm not close to hitting yet. And in time, it'll come. I know it will. It's just because of that kind of individual I am. But there's people I want to work with. There are movies and ideas that I have that I want to make that are huge, major levels. And I will keep pushing myself until I grab those breaststrings. I'm not quiet about wanting the Russos to come back and make another movie here.

Ryan Kelly [00:33:19]:
I'm working with them. I would love that idea. So that's just one of the many things. But, yeah, I mean, some of the things I'm starting to do, so I feel very good about it.

Jeffrey Stern [00:33:31]:
Yeah. Talk to us about substance.

Ryan Kelly [00:33:34]:
Substance is literally just a name change from trg, Sound and Vision.

Jeffrey Stern [00:33:41]:
But what inspired that, though?

Ryan Kelly [00:33:43]:
Boy, literally, it was just a. The name itself is just, you know, we want to make things of substance. They want things to be good. We want something. Something that's worth watching. We had thought about this when we first got started, and we went with Sound and Vision, which is a Bowie reference, and with the trg, and it just. TRG is a very different company. Although we apply the same principles and we work under the same roof.

Ryan Kelly [00:34:16]:
It just became kind of like we need to. With what we're doing in the lane that we're taking. We wanted to have it be its own little world. So substance kind of came up. And then there as. As we were talking about it and getting ready for it, there was a movie that came out called the Substance. And we were like, all right, let's pump the brakes on changing the name right away. And now that this movie has kind of done its run its course, we're kind of getting ready to come back out.

Ryan Kelly [00:34:45]:
And I'm not sure when this will air, but, you know, well, there'll be an announcement here in the next couple days that the movie's shooting here and substance is a part of it. So that'll be kind of like our, hey, this is now substance. But, you know, we want to make stuff of substance, and this is substance.

Jeffrey Stern [00:35:05]:
Yeah. Love it. There's no ambiguity about it.

Ryan Kelly [00:35:09]:
No, it's cool. That's a cool. It's a cool word, too.

Jeffrey Stern [00:35:14]:
I really like it. I do.

Ryan Kelly [00:35:15]:
Yeah.

Jeffrey Stern [00:35:16]:
But I do want to zoom out for a moment and talk about something you mentioned, which is the pace, the velocity of how quickly the industry is changing structurally. Technology. You mentioned the short form, AI slop, just all the content out there. I mean, it dovetails nicely with the idea of substance. But how do you think about technology and some of these macro trends that are at play?

Ryan Kelly [00:35:49]:
Adapt or die. My partner Adam will say that it's adapt or die. There's a way that all this is going to work together. And it's, you know, the ones that figure that out are the ones that are going to be successful in this business. There's so much, so many different ways to consume content these days. I hate even saying content because we're making films, we're making television, but it's content. Like, keeping people's attention is hard. So, you know, my kids, you know, when they have their devices, they're just.

Ryan Kelly [00:36:24]:
And so are we. You know, we're always just 10 seconds, 10 seconds. And it's kind of like the attention spans have gone down. So when you're making something a little bit long form, you have to make sure that you're maintaining that. That attention span, but also like, you're using the tools that are. Are there for you properly. And I think right now, especially with how much is out and how many tools there are and the ways to do things, it just becomes almost. I don't even want to be like, it's.

Ryan Kelly [00:36:58]:
It's almost like a moral decision. It's like, can you use, like, the right things for the right. Like, obviously in our industry, it'll have to regulate itself somehow. But it's going to be interesting the next couple years, that's for sure. But, you know, as far as. As adapting to the different kind of techniques and, and things like, I think we're doing a pretty good Job of doing that without losing the integrity of. Of. Of telling stories the proper way or making movies or television.

Ryan Kelly [00:37:33]:
So. But yeah, it's. I mean, if you're not adapting to the way things are, then it's just going to blow right past you and then you're going to be like, what happened?

Jeffrey Stern [00:37:44]:
Yep. The optimist in me is hoping that there will be this sort of flight to quality, you know, and that people will get so frustrated by the addictive nature of the short form that. Because it spreads and quickly, easily, but it really doesn't, I think, garner or build trust and loyalty. And like, I think there's gonna be a yearning for like, real, real films. Not content, you know, like actual substance.

Ryan Kelly [00:38:21]:
Give me substance. Hey, nice. There you go. Yeah. From your lips to God's ears. Like, it's, It's. That's kind of what we as filmmakers and television creators and things like that. We hope that that becomes.

Ryan Kelly [00:38:38]:
It comes back around and circuit. Everything comes back around anyway. So it's like, let's hope that that does as well. Or else. Yeah, I don't know, just open up a record store and. Chattanooga, Tennessee.

Jeffrey Stern [00:38:53]:
Yeah. So, I mean, what do you feel adaptation looks like in contrast to dying?

Ryan Kelly [00:38:59]:
You know, like what, practically the virtual sense of filmmaking. There's a way that. That can play into the normal sense. So essentially, like, what's behind me is this giant virtual stage that can make any set anywhere, Right. It could be on. We could be at the top of Everest. We could be in top of a pyramid right there. And it can look like we're literally walking up and down on the pyramids.

Ryan Kelly [00:39:27]:
Are we going to use that to make an entire film? Probably not. But like, there are certain aspects of. Of, of production that that solves problems. And for any film, even the film that we're on, you know, that we're talking about right now, like, it could. It solves problems. So to adapt is to have something like that available and ready to use and have the folks who know how to use it the proper way versus just putting one up and being like, okay, let's figure this out as we go. It's like, no, let's train the people who want to do this kind of thing, create jobs. Let's create, you know, another sector of our industry and use it as a tool.

Ryan Kelly [00:40:11]:
So that's kind of how it is for adapting, you know, to the modern filmmaking. And it's been around for quite some time now. But I mean, you know, there's only. This is. There's one Here that's commercial, so that, you know, anybody can come in and play on, you know, between Chicago and New York. I mean, CIA has one for their school, but, like, it's.

Jeffrey Stern [00:40:37]:
Yeah, it's a surreal asset.

Ryan Kelly [00:40:40]:
Yeah, for sure. But, yeah, those are the kind of tools. It's like we're keeping up with the trends and seeing where things go and making sure that we're prepared for it.

Jeffrey Stern [00:40:51]:
Yeah. So you are. I mean, quite literally behind the scenes right now.

Ryan Kelly [00:40:56]:
Yeah.

Jeffrey Stern [00:40:57]:
What do you wish more people understood about what it is that you do?

Ryan Kelly [00:41:04]:
Oh, man. What is it that I do? To be honest, I wish that I could quantify what I do to explain it properly, because there's so many different aspects of my job to my partner's job. That is not just one defined role. Like, it's. I'm not, you know, producer, development, creative, all those different things, they all serve different purposes depending on the situation. Now, fundraiser is a huge part of my job is fundraising, trying to see the value in the projects that we're making, to ask somebody to support it and to support our vision in the attempts to make money for everybody. So there's a lot to my job. So.

Ryan Kelly [00:42:03]:
So I guess the one thing I wish I could explain is what it is I do in simple terms.

Jeffrey Stern [00:42:12]:
Yes. That's why I liked trying to draw this parallel between artist and entrepreneurship, because I think there's such an overlap in, I mean, what you're doing. It's just entrepreneurship to me.

Ryan Kelly [00:42:27]:
Yes, it is, it is, but it's. It's hard for me to think about it that way, even though I know it is, because I'm such. The art is such a big part of my life that it's just like, yes, entrepreneurial. But I don't. I. It never. I never think about it in that sense. It's just kind of.

Ryan Kelly [00:42:48]:
It's just. No, this is just what I do what is asked of me. What do I need to do to do the next thing? Okay, then that's what I'm doing. And that's. That's just it. So, I mean, yes, I have a businessman, I have a business, and I have to keep that business going. I have to, you know, to make things and make money. But at the same time, it's just like, I'm creating art.

Ryan Kelly [00:43:10]:
I just want to create the art.

Jeffrey Stern [00:43:11]:
Yeah, I just. Jay Z line. I'm a businessman. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Ryan Kelly [00:43:18]:
I could post. There's a lot of similarities for me and Jay Z. I don't know.

Jeffrey Stern [00:43:23]:
So how do you then think about what success looks like.

Ryan Kelly [00:43:26]:
I don't. I mean, honestly, like, I think that's my biggest flaw is that I don't know what success looks like. I just, I. I'm. I'm happy in my situation, so I feel success right now. I know that I'm not even close to where I want to be in my career, but I'm. I'm grateful for where I am. And I feel like I've, like the things I've done in my life.

Ryan Kelly [00:43:53]:
I feel successful just because there are the things that I've accomplished. I know that many people try for a very long time to and don't come close to those things. And I feel very grateful that I have gotten some of those things, but I don't know that I ever will. I don't know. You know, if I grab a bra, you know, if I reach one of the brass rings that I try to grab for, then maybe be like, okay, cool. That's cool. But then I would. I would be right on to the next thing.

Ryan Kelly [00:44:28]:
I'd be like, okay, cool. What. All right, what's the next one I was trying to grab? So, I mean, I've, you know, I have a. You know, I'm a dad. I've got two little boys. And, you know, they're the most beautiful things I've ever seen in my life. So I feel successful with them already, other than everything else is just, you know what I do.

Jeffrey Stern [00:44:52]:
Yeah, no, it's a beautiful expression.

Ryan Kelly [00:44:54]:
And it's. That's. I. I mean, that's. I don't know if it's cliche or cheesy, but it's. That's the truth. Like, and people say that and it's like that. Well, you know, that's.

Ryan Kelly [00:45:04]:
That's kind of how I feel about success. I think I'm already there and it's just. Everything else is just. Just what I'm going to keep doing.

Jeffrey Stern [00:45:14]:
What movies or projects stand out to you when you reflect on your career?

Ryan Kelly [00:45:21]:
Everything I've worked on has been inspiring. Literally everything. Just working with people and the people that are also working on the projects. Just watching everything from the people putting up lights and how they are so good at their craft, people that are editing, like, just watching people do their jobs and their passion is inspiring on every project that I. That I'm a part of, if it's content wise or story wise. I mean, obviously, I'm very partial to my docu series, Wrestle Hurt, obviously, because I've been working on it for so long, and it's Very, you know, is very transformative, not only for the girls in the story and the sport, but for me as a person. And just, like, watching people just not be able to do what they want to do and then being able to do it, because it was very inspiring. It's the only thing, like, I.

Ryan Kelly [00:46:29]:
I'm. I don't hide emotion very well. I. I wear it on my sleeve, and, you know, I. But this is. Funny story. This is one of our last days of filming was this state championship with these girls. And at this point, I'm with them for a couple years, and I feel like, you know, an older brother to all these girls, and they'll call me older brother and all that.

Ryan Kelly [00:46:49]:
And so it feels like a big family. And as I'm directing this, it's seven crews. Seven or eight crews at this last event. And Adam, my partner, was like. He kind of took over the directing reins for me because I was just kind of very overwhelmed in the moment as these things were happening to these girls and they're wrestling these matches, and I'm, like, in tears for some of them, and I'm happy for stuff for some of them, but I like the emotion of telling their story and being a part of that and them trusting me to tell them and then being with them as it all kind of came to fruition and followed through, it was very overwhelming. And so, yeah, Adam pulled me aside and be like, you're off. Go cry over there. Like, so.

Ryan Kelly [00:47:37]:
But, yeah, I think as far as, like, inspirational, like, just watching those girls go, go through what they went through, and I just hope that, you know, I get a chance to help them tell their story to the masses. And, well, that project's almost done. We're out there taking it to the streets right now, hoping somebody says a yes to it. And while the girls in the show represent. It's what they represent, obviously. It's all the girls all over the world and all over the country.

Jeffrey Stern [00:48:09]:
Yeah. Can you give us a short premise?

Ryan Kelly [00:48:13]:
The girls high school wrestling was unsanctioned for quite some time. So if the girls ever wanted to win a wrestling. If a girl wanted to wrestle, she had to join a boys team. And if they ever wanted to win anything, whether it be a state title or whatever, they had to beat a boy to do it. So a group of coaches. And this happened all over the country, but we were luckily in Ohio and Pennsylvania, and a group of coaches got together, and they said, hey, how do we get this sport sanctioned so they can wrestle. Girls can wrestle girls for State championships and, and this team of coaches got together and they put together the blueprint to get the sport sanctioned. And I give away what happens, but in Google find out.

Ryan Kelly [00:48:59]:
Fairly easy. But you know, we went through this journey with eight girls in total. From them having to be, you know, the only girl on a team wrestling boys to building a team full of girls. And it started with my alma mater and they were the first team and it went to, you know, a state championship, Matt, you know, a state championship weekend down in Columbus. So it's been taking a while to get this, to get it finished because we want to make sure that we're telling it the right way. And it's a huge story. It's a 10 episode series, it's almost 10 hours worth of of stuff. But I think it's an absolutely inspiring show.

Afif Ghannoum [00:49:46]:
And so yeah, it sounds substantive.

Ryan Kelly [00:49:50]:
There's no short answer for me to say that. There's no short explanation of wrestler. But that's just one of our, like I said, all of our projects are very different and very inspiring in very different ways. All real, you know, all our non scripted stuff. So yeah, we just, we're looking forward to getting out there and putting our name out there and having our projects make a difference and start the next phase.

Jeffrey Stern [00:50:18]:
Say, say a little bit more about what you're most looking forward to, you know. What is the next phase?

Ryan Kelly [00:50:25]:
Well, the next phase, obviously, like I said, we're producing a major motion picture that's coming in multimillion dollar film that's filming here in Ohio. It's filming inside of our soundstage for the most part with two national companies. That's the, you know, this is kind of the first step into that direction of doing those kind of things. But yeah, we, we've, we've done everything ourselves so far, so we like doing it that way. We like controlling our own narrative. But also we understand that for us to be a trusted name and somebody that is looked upon as making good things and smart things, we need to work with other companies that we feel are strong and smart and have the same kind of value. So that's kind of what we're doing with this first film. And we've got a couple other irons in the fire that could come to fruition here in the next couple months, but focused on what's in front of us right now.

Ryan Kelly [00:51:33]:
And that's, you know, getting these, these non scripted projects out the door, which they're all, like I said, they're all very close. And then get this big movie Here. Shot in the can. And then we'll see what happens next.

Jeffrey Stern [00:51:49]:
Yeah. If you could go back in time and tell your younger self out of just finishing the program, everyone telling you, no, you can't do it this way, what. What would you. What would you tell yourself?

Ryan Kelly [00:52:04]:
Just be patient. I'm not one to. I mean, I feel like I've. The path I'm on is the right path. I never felt like I was on the. There was, you know, bumps in the road for sure. But I think that I've. If I would go back and tell my younger self, like, just be patient.

Ryan Kelly [00:52:25]:
Like this, everything. You're doing things the right way, regardless of what, you know, you think of things sometimes. I'm my own worst critic. I don't necessarily adhere to what others say or feel. It's. I'm, you know, I'm my own person. So you beat.

Jeffrey Stern [00:52:49]:
You beat to your own drum?

Ryan Kelly [00:52:50]:
Yeah. Like. Well, not only that, but like, I just. I'm only judging myself. I'm only. I only I care about what I'm putting into the world and the energy I'm putting out into the world. And I. And so I.

Ryan Kelly [00:53:09]:
When I make mistakes, I make them. I don't blame anybody else. It's just me. And so if I was to go back and tell my younger self, I'd just be like, just be patient. You're doing it the right way. Don't listen to anybody else. Just do what you're going to do.

Jeffrey Stern [00:53:28]:
Yeah. Well said. Well, I think we'll work to bookend the conversation here.

Ryan Kelly [00:53:35]:
Yeah. Have I given you everything you need? If there's anything I need to go.

Jeffrey Stern [00:53:40]:
Back, I'll ask you that. I'll ask you that. Do you feel there's anything, you know, particularly important that's unsaid, that. That you would. That you would want to share?

Ryan Kelly [00:53:50]:
No. You know, I'm grateful for the folks that have gotten me to where I am. Obviously, I put in the work and I am. I'm an overly optimistic person majority of the time, but you couldn't.

Jeffrey Stern [00:54:06]:
You couldn't do what you're doing. I don't think if you weren't.

Ryan Kelly [00:54:09]:
Yeah, for sure. But, you know, there are other people that have to trust in my vision as well, and I'm insanely appreciative of them. And the folks that have gotten me to where. That have helped me get to where I'm at, you know, I keep a running list of the folks that I will have to thank one day, and I'm just eternally grateful. To them, gratitude is one thing. I try to practice as much as I can. So I'm extremely grateful to those folks that have helped me get to where I am and where I currently and will help me in the future.

Jeffrey Stern [00:54:49]:
Well, I'll ask you then our traditional closing question, which is for a hidden gem in Cleveland, something other folks should know about that maybe they don't.

Ryan Kelly [00:54:59]:
The majority of the time, if I'm not playing music at Rock and Roll City Studios or I'm playing at a, you know, grog shop or the Happy Dog or, you know, I go to shows, I drive my kids around, I'm here. So my hidden gem, I don't know necessarily that I have one because I just love our city very, very much. I think the entire city itself is a hidden gem. So I'll just hit my buddy's brewery, which is called Midnight Owl Brewery in Shaker Heights. It's my buddy Joel's brewery. He makes the best, absolute best beer. He works so hard on making his beer. Every single one tastes so good all the time.

Ryan Kelly [00:55:53]:
So I will forever put Midnight Owl up there as my hidden gem for sure.

Jeffrey Stern [00:56:02]:
Excellent. I love it.

Ryan Kelly [00:56:03]:
Yeah. Midnight Owl Brewery, Shaker Heights. Beautiful.

Jeffrey Stern [00:56:07]:
Right on. Well, Ryan, I just want to thank you in the spirit of gratitude for coming on, sharing your story and just your thoughts. It's awesome what you're building, and I'm excited to see what. What comes of it.

Ryan Kelly [00:56:23]:
Appreciate it, Jeffrey. Thank you so much for having me.

Jeffrey Stern [00:56:26]:
Absolutely. If people had anything they wanted to follow up about, learn more. Where, where are you directing them?

Ryan Kelly [00:56:34]:
This is substance.com. this underscore is underscore substance on Instagram. That's where our stuff will be. Also Model Martell, our band, Model Martel. I'm going to throw that out there. We're gonna have our album release party September shoot. I think it's the sixth. Oh, man.

Ryan Kelly [00:56:59]:
It's so far in the future that I, like, have no idea. I think it's September 6th at the Happy Dog. So this is like. That's as punk rock as you can get right there. It's like you don't even remember the day of your. That's awesome. Yeah, September 6th at the Happy Dog with Bimoda Martel. But yeah, as far as work and film and stuff is, this is substance.

Ryan Kelly [00:57:19]:
That's where all our stuff is.

Jeffrey Stern [00:57:21]:
Cool. Well, thank you again, Ryan.

Ryan Kelly [00:57:24]:
Thanks, Jeffrey.

Afif Ghannoum [00:57:27]:
That's all for this week. Thank you for listening. We'd love to hear your thoughts on today's show. So if you have any feedback, please send over an email to jeffreyoftheland fm or find us on Twitter @pod layoftheland or at sternfa J E F E.

Jeffrey Stern [00:57:43]:
J if you or someone you know.

Afif Ghannoum [00:57:45]:
Would make a good guest for our show, please reach out as well and let us know. And if you enjoy the podcast, please subscribe and leave a review on itunes or on your preferred podcast player. Your support goes a long way to help us spread the word and continue to bring the Cleveland founders and builders we love having on the show. We'll be back here next week at the same time to map more of the land. The Lay of the Land podcast was developed in collaboration with the upcoming LLC at the time of this recording. Unless otherwise indicated, we do not own equity or other financial interests in the company which appear on this show. All opinions expressed by podcast participants are solely their own and do not reflect the opinions of any entity which employs us. This podcast is for informational purposes only and should not be relied upon as a basis for investment decisions.

Afif Ghannoum [00:58:31]:
Thank you for listening and we'll talk to you next week.