#209: Daniel Anstandig (Futuri Media) - AI, Future of Media, Music, and Investing

Daniel Anstandig [00:00:00]:
We work with people who have been in the business of business for twenty, thirty, forty years. There is a certain value to sitting and listening with curiosity and not just walking in as the technology partner and saying, hey, time to disrupt and blow it all up and this is how things go. And, and by listening and understanding why they think a certain way and what, what they're really trying to accomplish, you can ultimately create a better tech oriented solution.

Jeffrey Stern [00:00:27]:
Welcome to the Lay of the Land podcast, where we are exploring what people are building in Cleveland and throughout Northeast Ohio. I am your host, Jeffrey Stern. And today, I had the real pleasure of speaking with Daniel Anstandig, CEO of Futuri Media, a leading AI driven platform that he founded here in Cleveland in 02/2009, enabling companies to build and monetize engaged audiences. Today, Futuri's sales, content, and audience technology serves over 7,000 media brands across 22 countries, supported by a bold and passionate team honored on the Inc. Five thousand list of America's fastest growing companies for nine years over. Daniel personally has advised The Wall Street Journal, CBS News, Clear Channel R and D, the White House Commission on Remembrance, Glencoe McGraw Hill, and various broadcasting companies in The USA, Canada, and Europe on digital audience and revenue growth strategies. And his research and editorials on radio and interactive media have been published in the Wall Street Journal, Billboard, and numerous other trade publications. A proud two time recipient of the Edison Research's thirty under 30 award, Daniel has also been recognized by Entrepreneur Magazine for his work as a young entrepreneur.

Jeffrey Stern [00:01:45]:
Outside of Futuri, Dan has developed 20 plus patents in audio, podcasting, AI, and broadcast technology, cofounded sparktrade.io to democratize AI powered investment insights, offering real time buy and sell signals to nearly 9,000 investors daily. He serves on the board of directors for Teaching Cleveland, part of Teaching Place, a nonprofit focused on social and civic engagement and education, as well as BoxCast, the global leader in live streaming and remote mix technology, whose story we actually heard more about from Gordon Daley. BoxCast's founder and CEO, on episode 26 of Lay of the Land. As you'll hear, Dan is very clear and concise in his thinking, and it was awesome to listen to his reflections on the evolution of media, curation in an age of information overload, the future of content creation, life lessons from music that apply to entrepreneurship, building entrepreneurial teams, moving from Cleveland to Austin and reflections on Cleveland, the importance of creating community and building trust, and a whole lot more. So please enjoy this insightful conversation with Daniel Anstandig. Lay of the Land is brought to you and is proudly sponsored by Roundstone Insurance. Headquartered in Rocky River, Ohio, Roundstone shares Lay of the Land's same passion for bold ideas and lasting impact from our community's entrepreneurs, innovators, and leaders. Since 02/2005, Roundstone has pioneered a self funded captive health insurance model that delivers robust savings for small and medium sized businesses.

Jeffrey Stern [00:03:21]:
They are part of the solution to rising health care costs, helping employers offer affordable high quality care while driving job creation and economic growth throughout Northeast Ohio. Like many of the voices featured on Lay of the Land, including Roundstone's founder and CEO, Mike Schroeder, Roundstone believes entrepreneurship, innovation, and community to be the cornerstones of progress. To learn more about how Roundstone Stone is transforming employee health benefits by empowering employers to save thousands in per employee per year health care costs, please visit roundstoneinsurance.com. Round stone insurance, built for entrepreneurs, backed by innovation, committed to Cleveland. I'll divulge that that this first question is is a, direct one from Lee Zappas

Daniel Anstandig [00:04:09]:
Okay.

Jeffrey Stern [00:04:09]:
Who I who I may reference, a few times here. But it it felt like a fun one to start with just to get us going. What what was it like getting invited to attend church with Stevie Wonder?

Daniel Anstandig [00:04:23]:
I love that you wanna start there. Well, I'll tell you one of my favorite clients of all times, at Futuri is KJLH, Stevie Wonder's radio station based in Los Angeles. Stevie Wonder in '19 in the nineteen seventies wanted to be a DJ. And when you're Stevie Wonder and you wanna be a DJ, you don't just become a DJ, you buy a radio station. And you don't just do it in any market, you do it in the second largest market in the world and the largest media market in the world, Los Angeles. So he bought KJLH which stands for Kindness, Joy, Love and Happiness. What's not to love about this? And when I was first installing the KJLH mobile apps for we we launched a mobile app with KJLH and we brought our topic pulse technology to KJLH which is a system that can observe or scan what's happening on x, Instagram, Facebook, and 250,000 new sources, and it can show what's trending in a local market. So, his station and the people who work on the air monitor what's trending in LA and what's trending with their audience overall.

Daniel Anstandig [00:05:26]:
And they use that to figure out what they're gonna talk about on air or on their social channels and so on. Anyway, they were very gracious and in the middle of my, first install with them and when I got to know them, I happened to be staying over a weekend and I asked if, anybody had a good church that I could go to. I was I was, a bit tongue in cheek about it actually because, you know, I didn't expect anybody to be so hospitable. But I was invited to Stevie's church and, West Angeles Church. And by the way, it lives up to every reputation. It's a beautiful place. The music is soulful and out of this world, and the message was great. So, we've had a very great a wonderful partnership with Stevie and, and with the KJOH team.

Daniel Anstandig [00:06:10]:
And actually, Karen Slade, who is the general manager of KJOH, she's just retiring this year. She's been there since 1991, but she is a Clevelander, and, went from Cleveland to Los Angeles many years ago to help run the station. And, yes. They're just amazing people.

Jeffrey Stern [00:06:26]:
That's that's that's so cool. Well, I feel like, you know, out of the gate here, we could probably do a a two part podcast just to cover the the breadth of all the endeavors that you've undergone and kind of the history of of your career. But with that in mind, how how would you articulate the arc and trajectory of of your career? And what what have been the themes and and patterns that have motivated you and inspired you, along the way?

Daniel Anstandig [00:06:56]:
Well, I've I've always been entrepreneurial. I mean, as far back as I can remember as a kid I was always interested in business and marketing and product development and technology for sure and media. And and you know originally broadcast media and television and radio but then social media and mobile technology and so on. The first business that I well, I'll start here. I actually started to work in media at a rate local radio station when I was nine years old. That was the first job that I had. And I worked at Ray Samich's WELW, now WDLW in, Willoughby, Ohio and a family owned radio station, very, very cool people and have been super, super invested in the Cleveland market and business community for many years and have helped many local businesses grow over many years. They gave me kind of my my first break.

Daniel Anstandig [00:07:47]:
I was calling everybody in Nine

Jeffrey Stern [00:07:49]:
years old. That is

Daniel Anstandig [00:07:49]:
the first break. Yes. I was calling everybody in Cleveland, you know, in Cleveland radio and television saying, I'll do anything. Mop the floors. I will clean the toilets. I just wanna come in and learn. And, and Ray and his family were very kind to me. I also, I worked at a number of other, you know, radio, and TV stations, but my first real entrepreneurial venture was when I was 14.

Daniel Anstandig [00:08:11]:
I started a streaming advertising company, that was really all about, getting into the Internet radio advertising, business, Internet, Internet audio ad insertion. And I sold that business when I was 18 and went to work for digital, and went to work as an in house entrepreneur for, digital endeavors inside of traditional media companies. So I worked for Wall Street Journal Digital, CBS Television, iHeartRadio, all kind of on that digital entrepreneurship front. How can we build new media businesses in legacy media companies? And that led to starting Futuri. When I was 24 years old, I started Futuri. Today we're coming up on, fifteen years in business. We have over 7,000 media clients in 22 countries who use our technologies to either grow audience or to sell their audience, monetize their audience in terms of selling advertising. Also, about five years ago, I started Spark Trade, an AI powered investment insights company that generates buy and sell signals using AI or using machine learning, for investors and for institutional portfolio managers.

Daniel Anstandig [00:09:14]:
And I've also been an advisor for media and tech executives on strategy for a number of years and have had the opportunity and privilege to serve on a number of boards including, nonprofit boards, including one here in Cleveland, Teaching Place, which is a nonprofit that is specifically focused on social and civic engagement in the Cleveland area. And BoxCast, a global leader in live streaming and remote mix technology that's based in Cleveland. So I've had a very, I've been blessed to have some amazing mentors and wonderful opportunities in Cleveland. I have a little bit of a different perspective than most of your lay of the land guests though. Yeah. Yeah. Because I moved to Austin, Texas about a year ago.

Jeffrey Stern [00:09:54]:
Right. Let let let's talk about that.

Daniel Anstandig [00:09:56]:
Yeah. So I so I was, based in Cleveland since I was a kid. I grew up in Beechwood. I went to John Carroll University. And so I am a huge Cleveland fan and Cleveland advocate. During COVID, you know, I really looked at where it strategically made sense for our company to grow and for us to have a presence. And Austin, Texas is a bright shining light on the map every time you think about technology, growth and scaling a company or companies like ours. And so I relocated to Austin about a year ago, and we have been recruiting and developing our Austin contingent.

Daniel Anstandig [00:10:32]:
And so I have a little bit of a different perspective on the Cleveland market. I I love it. I I have there's a wonderful place in my heart for Cleveland. I do have a lot of ideas about what Cleveland could have done, and and I've been fairly outspoken about it even over the years about what Cleveland could do to grow its technology culture and grow its startup culture. But now I I have an even more, I think, stark, contrast in my mind between Cleveland and Austin because I've or Cleveland and and elsewhere because I've now lived and been kind of immersed in the Austin tech culture for a bit. And, and so I probably am coming to the podcast with a little bit of a different mindset.

Jeffrey Stern [00:11:09]:
Yeah. Well, I there are many threads to pull on there, but let let's just let's start there. You know? What is the the unvarnished feelings and opinions that you have about what what, what what those differences are in the in the, experiences that you've had in in Cleveland and Austin and and elsewhere.

Daniel Anstandig [00:11:26]:
Well, well, I'll tell you this. Cleveland has some incredible people. It has incredible depth depending on the type of business you are you are building. If you're in healthcare innovation, or if you have medical expertise and you're developing something, you know a new product or a company you know that really pulls on research partnerships. There is a tremendous built in ecosystem in Cleveland. There's also manufacturing DNA, of course. I mean, there's, you know, not just traditional manufacturing, but I mean, there is a real understanding in the Cleveland market and Akron Canton about, you know, how to manufacture all types of goods. And so there is a unique combination of digital, innovation and physical engineering expertise that that I think regularly shows up in the types of guests who you have on your podcast.

Daniel Anstandig [00:12:17]:
There's also, of course, a kind of a cool business community in Cleveland where anybody you wanna meet, the size of the market, everybody's very accessible. It's very Midwest friendly. You wanna get a meeting with a CEO or a major company based in Cleveland. The network is strong. People truly sincerely wanna help each other. And, you know, there's kind of this, brotherhood, sisterhood that comes, you know, comes through in Cleveland. Here's what is different, though having, now a bit more experience. And and, you know, over the years that I lived in Cleveland, especially the last, you know, fifteen to twenty years, I was traveling a lot, you know, maybe half of every month or so, traveling a lot to build our business and a lot of other, you know, markets and some very famous tech friendly markets in Silicon Valley and Southern California and so on.

Daniel Anstandig [00:13:03]:
But there's a there's a difference. The level of risk capital is different in Cleveland. There's just, I think there's an opportunity to build more venture capital, more risk capital in the Cleveland market. There's there are some great angel investors. There's a growing network of angel investors in Cleveland that could be nurtured and cultivated even more. The biggest thing is the talent pipeline. There are really smart people who come from around the world to study and learn in Cleveland but then we lose them. And I think there's there's a tremendous opportunity for businesses in Cleveland and this is part of what I'm really passionate about with teaching Cleveland and teaching place is that when you love when you love the the community and you love where you're at, you do think differently about building for the long term there and you think differently about, you know working together across, across different, you know, types of businesses and industries to keep that talent pipeline in the market, have stronger internship programs, connecting students into local startups.

Daniel Anstandig [00:14:06]:
You know, what, what John Carroll is doing with their entrepreneurship program, don't there is just fantastic. We need more and more of that in Cleveland to keep that kind of modern innovation and, to really frankly to change the narrative for Cleveland. So I say all that with love in my heart for Cleveland. Cleveland could do a much better job creating business incentives, economic incentives to move early stage companies to the market and repurpose or, you know, rethink some of the incredible real estate that, you know, we have and office space that we have across the Cleveland market. For Futuri and for, July and spark trade, the system the the companies that I'm involved in, what it came down to for us is that, you know, we're we're but one of many, different types of technology companies in Cleveland. And we really just had to make a decision about, where the company would be based for long term network into the into the media and technology markets. And so while we still have a huge contingent in Cleveland, a lot of people who work for Futurier in Cleveland, we were hiring more and more outside of Cleveland and it came down to just making a long term decision for the company. But, at the same time, I still believe that Cleveland has a remarkable and unique story, and there are a lot of ways that local investors and entrepreneurs can build a whole new generation, a whole new narrative.

Daniel Anstandig [00:15:27]:
And you're a huge part of that too. And what you're doing with the Ohio Fund, I think is really remarkable and important.

Jeffrey Stern [00:15:33]:
Well, thank you. I certainly appreciate that. I mean, a lot of of your assessment there resonates quite deeply with me in the spirit of where this podcast even came from in the first place. You know, my my path to Cleveland was one via venture for America, which was from a recognition of the brain drain that cities like Cleveland have and the young person retention challenge and what it takes to keep those people, who are from those cities in those cities. And from my perspective, you know, why why I love doing this podcast beyond getting to individually, you know, meet people like yourself is is the storytelling part. Right? Like, I I found if you were a young person that wanted to start a company in Cleveland, but you didn't know who in your community had achieved success at building something that that you might aspire to one day, then you would be further inclined to go to San Francisco or New York or Boston where you knew for sure or Austin, right, where where that stuff is happening. And so the, I thought the opportunity was in, you know, telling the stories of, of Cleveland Entrepreneurs, where, you know, you mentioned kind of the, the warmth and, and, kindness of people here. With that, there was, there's a humility.

Jeffrey Stern [00:16:47]:
And so we're we're not we're not great about celebrating, to me, the what's very inspirational and aspirational about what people have have achieved, the the excellence, the success. And it's not you don't even need to brag. It's just, you know, let's talk about it.

Daniel Anstandig [00:17:01]:
Yeah. I'm with you. I mean, there's a, there's a there's a great openness to Cleveland and a Midwest charm that I think Cleveland has uniquely. And, and there are multiple there are there are lots of businesses that are on their second generation, or third generation mixed, you know sitting in office space right next to brand new startups. So there's, there's something really amazing about that. And it's a narrative that is frankly I think under celebrated and not well told. So, you know, what you're doing is shining a light on that for Cleveland. And I I think that, you know, that's exactly what the market needs.

Daniel Anstandig [00:17:37]:
And also economic incentives and, you know, thinking about the network and all of that, you know, help and and the brain drain and and so on. You know, all of those things, it's a rising tide, you know, that that raises all ships, as they say.

Jeffrey Stern [00:17:51]:
Yeah. So with regards to your own entrepreneurial journey, you know, you mentioned the the age at which you got started, which to me is is quite remarkable. I feel you had a certain clairvoyance about, you know, where the world was going as it related to to media, what media was, where media was going. Where did that intuition about things come from, and and what was interesting to you about media? You know, of all the things you could have been interested in, what what kinda drew you to that space at that time?

Daniel Anstandig [00:18:24]:
Well, what's always been interesting to me about media is that really high functioning cultures and civilizations have one great thing in common. They have extraordinary communication. And I'm not talking about extraordinary mainstream media brands. I'm talking about extraordinary communication, open sharing of information, ability to exchange perspectives, to give people, intelligence, you know, unearned intelligence, you know, that they can, they can learn and explore without having to go get that experience hands on on their own. And media for me has always been a huge part of that. The media industry has changed and it's frankly grown exploded since I started working in it. You know when I was a kid media would be known as TV, radio and newspaper and now there are you know huge platforms extraordinary platforms that are part of the media industry and the largest media companies now are Google, you know, YouTube, and Spotify and Microsoft. And so the tech the tech media, convergence, it used to be called, you know, fifteen years ago.

Daniel Anstandig [00:19:32]:
Today, tech media tech companies and media companies are really just about, you know, interchangeable. If you're if you're in media, you are a technology company and vice versa. If you're a big one, if you're a high performing one. And so, so I've always been fascinated by that. And there's a, I have almost a sense of, you know, it's it can sound polarizing to say this, but a sense of patriotism about media. And, and, you know, that's not an allegiance to any particular, you know, party, etcetera. That's a that's that's just a kind of a, I think, a mindset that it's just, patriotic to be in favor of exchanging ideas, communication, helping businesses to grow by getting the word out about them. Everything that media stands for and open exchange of content intelligence, information, ideas, that that's always been super enticing to me.

Daniel Anstandig [00:20:28]:
From a tech perspective, what I've always loved is that we're at an age where if you can imagine it and if you have, you know, the right idea, you can build it, you can, you can develop things so much faster and and so much more effectively today than you ever could have, you know in generations before us. And so, you know the entrepreneurial culture, I grew up in a very entrepreneurial culture, and I think the entrepreneurial culture of our company has made it a fun place to work because in sixteen years at Futuri, I've experienced 16 different versions of the company. Futuri twenty twenty four was very different from Futuri twenty fourteen and, and very different from Futuri twenty twenty and so on. And I have no doubt that this year and five years from now and ten years from now, it'll continue to grow and pivot and and, and change. And that's kind of what I like about the tech industry and the media industry because that's true of most companies in both sectors.

Jeffrey Stern [00:21:29]:
Right. Like, what new media is changes every year as well. You know? Just like Exactly. The it's the reality and pace of of how fast all all this is moving. What were you attuned to when you started Futuri? I guess, what was the new media of that period of time, and what was your intuition about what the opportunity might be?

Daniel Anstandig [00:21:51]:
Well, the big founding question of the company was what if TV and radio were invented after the Internet? So what if the Internet came first and then TV and radio were created later? And the bottom line is that TV and radio would think very differently about building and monetizing an audience. The building an audience would be done across many different platforms, not just getting people to go tune into a broadcast linear signal. You would create on demand content. You'd be available on many different, in many different places and monetizing an audience would certainly be done in a different way too. You wouldn't just depend on commercial spot advertising. You would have many different programs or ways to effectively help local businesses grow. So that was the founding question for the company. Now the company has grown and, I would say become much more dynamic about asking broader questions beyond just broadcast media.

Daniel Anstandig [00:22:50]:
You know, if we started by asking the question, how would TV and radio be different if they came after the internet? Now, I think the question is how would we leverage any technology today to build and monetize an audience? And there are lots of different companies that build and monetize audiences. There are digital publishers. There are, there are authors and, and publishers for books that think differently about using AI or using media. Today, about five years ago, we brought AI voices to the market where, you know, we're helping to create more local content and to create more audio content using AI and get content out faster, build audiences more effectively. So there's maybe a different set of fundamental questions that as a company we answered today, but the the spirit is still essentially the same. You know, we're still looking for ways to leverage technology to be more efficient and to grow audiences and help to monetize them.

Jeffrey Stern [00:23:44]:
In the different iterations of of Futuri as it's evolved over the life cycle of the company, were there a particular set of fundamental questions tied to each chapter that were most interesting to you?

Daniel Anstandig [00:23:59]:
Well, for sure. I feel like I get a new MBA every year. And, and I'm sure many entrepreneurs can relate to this. I'm sure you can relate to this, you know, every year is, is, it feels a little different, you know, but, but usually you're really getting back to the same, the same fundamental issues, you know. For us, I think, what we've consistently come back to, what's kind of always been the same is we always come back to the jobs to be done methodology. If you're familiar with Clayton Christensen and jobs to be done, his mindset was always that people don't just buy a product. People hire a product to do a job for them. And the more that you can understand exactly what that job to be done is, the more you have a clear North star for innovation, you know exactly what you're creating and who you're creating it for.

Daniel Anstandig [00:24:49]:
And we, you know, there there's a this fundamental idea in jobs to be done that you know you're on the right one when you come up with something that existed when Moses and Abraham were here. You know, it's not it's not something that just started in the last fifty, you know, fifty or a hundred years. So, you know, help me to build an audience, help me to monetize my audience. That's been around for thousands of years. It looks a little different. You know, now it might be mobile. It might be broadcast. It might be on demand.

Daniel Anstandig [00:25:18]:
It might be a YouTube video. Certainly the pandemic changed how a lot of people consume content and how we even, you know, experience advertising. But but the fundamental job to be job to be done has not changed. And I think that's, so so I guess that's a long way of saying the more things change, the more they stay the same. We're always focused on product market fit and you know, what is the, what is the job to be done and how do we use technology to accomplish that job in the most efficient way possible.

Jeffrey Stern [00:25:49]:
How would you describe the company today and where it is?

Daniel Anstandig [00:25:54]:
I would describe Futuri as a as an entrepreneurial, group of of approximately a 50 people who are helping 7,000 media companies in 22 countries to build audience and monetize that audience. And, and we are, today we're far more dynamic than we ever have been. We started, as a bootstrapped, angel funded company, Lee Zappas and Rich Bon Giorno were our early angel investors. And I've, by the way, love love love Lee Zappas and Rich Bon Giorno. They helped us to get our company started and have been very helpful and gracious mentors over the years. And, and about five years ago, we brought private equity into our business. And, Lee and Rich and I worked together along with our CFO, Marty Chagrin, and now our private equity, partners, JPMorgan, Hi Vista, Millpond Equity Partners is our management partner. We've we just have always been blessed with, I think, really, really, wonderful mentors and, contributors at a high level in our company who have helped to build out that entrepreneurial culture.

Daniel Anstandig [00:27:03]:
It's so, so yeah. So Futuri is is growing in new and interesting directions today. One thing that's different over the last year that, you know, we, I don't know that we could have said ten years ago we would be doing this. We just launched the world's first AI powered emergency broadcast system. We're doing it through a partnership with the state of Florida, the Florida division of emergency management and the University of Florida. And we're bringing this now to other states where we can use AI to automatically gather information from the state control center, translate it into local languages and distribute it on multiple platforms to citizens across the state. A little bit different in terms of how to build an audience, you know, if that's the job to be done. It's kind of building an audience in a critical, scenario in a life, life dependent and public safety oriented scenario.

Daniel Anstandig [00:27:53]:
But a good example of how, when you have the right job to be done and the right kind of fundamental questions for the company, you start to grow in a lot of other new interesting directions.

Jeffrey Stern [00:28:04]:
What have what have you learned from from Lee Zappas?

Daniel Anstandig [00:28:08]:
Lee is a creative Lee is like an idea machine. Lee is creative. He can sit with a founder, relate to them, understand them. One thing that I love about Lee, okay I I have to tell you a quick story about Lee Zappos. I, Lee Lee was running, his family's broadcast media company, when I was growing up. And so I grew up listening to his radio stations. And when I was 15, I was running, my first startup and I flew to Las Vegas to a broadcast conference, a major broadcast conference with 200,000 attendees. I don't know how, are we past the statute of limitations? How did my dad let me go to Vegas alone? It was my my parents were really pretty encouraging and pretty permissive.

Daniel Anstandig [00:28:58]:
So they let me go to Vegas alone. My dad, let me go there and, and I ran into Lee Zappas on the Convention floor at the Vegas Convention Center, which have you been there? It's like a it's like a county. It's a zip code of its own. It's huge. And I ran into Lee and, and he was, he at that moment, he was what he cared about was, how are you? What are you doing here? How can I help you? It was very personal. You know he's always been interested in business of course, he's a business man, a solid and legendary Cleveland Business Man. But he focuses on people first and that's really what I've learned most from from Lee. His business partner, and long time, friend and CFO, Rich Bonjourno is very much the same way.

Daniel Anstandig [00:29:47]:
You know, Rich is, also people people person first. Both of them in working together at Futuri have always encouraged me to kind of have that same mindset. Anyway, back to Lee and being people first in Vegas, He was like, so wait a second. You're here alone? You're you're, is anybody else here with you? You're 15. We're in Vegas. What could go wrong? And he was like, listen. I'm just gonna give you I'm gonna give you my hotel room number. I'm gonna give you my phone number.

Daniel Anstandig [00:30:17]:
Here are three ways to reach me. If you can't reach me, here are people you can reach back at home. Whatever you need, we're here for you. Whatever you need. And the way that he tells the story is that I slowly disappeared into the crowd as he walked away. But I remember this meeting and so does he because this was like a, it was a moment where I think he took me under his wing in a certain way and he still is that same way today, many years later. That's who Lee is, you know, and that's who Rich is. And that's, their mentoring has been has changed my life.

Jeffrey Stern [00:30:50]:
15 in Vegas. That's pretty good.

Daniel Anstandig [00:30:54]:
Pretty wild.

Jeffrey Stern [00:30:55]:
Yep. So, one one thing I'm curious about is to the degree that you as the CEO can influence what the culture of your organization is and instill this kind of entrepreneurial spirit into it that you have to constantly, you know, evolve through multiple iterations as the technology that that you're you're working with and utilizing evolves in parallel. Is there a certain tension that arises from the from your customers who who maybe aren't as quick to adapt to to the changing environment? And how how do you counsel, work with kind of legacy media institutions to help them, kind of broach the exponential rate at which things are changing all the time?

Daniel Anstandig [00:31:46]:
Well, I'll say first that, we love our customers. That's the first step. I mean, we work with we work with legacy media companies and we work with brand new startups that are podcasters, YouTube channels. We work with state government on on, Beacon. We work with publishers and digital publishers. So there are a lot of different types of media companies today compared to the types of media companies that existed when we started Futur. Even as I think about Spark trade, we work with institutional portfolio managers. We work with people who have been in the, business of business, you know, for twenty, thirty, forty years.

Daniel Anstandig [00:32:24]:
There is a certain value to sitting and listening with curiosity and not just walking in as the technology partner and saying, hey, time to disrupt and blow it all up and this is how things go. And, and by listening and understanding why they think a certain way and what, what they're really trying to accomplish, you can ultimately create a better tech oriented solution. So there's a certain amount to be said for customer intimacy. You know, if you think about kind of the the three legs of of, diversification for any company being product innovation, customer intimacy, or operational efficiency, And you can only pick one. Over the years, we have really had a dilemma about picking product innovation, which would be like Apple, or, Tesla versus customer intimacy, which would be more like IBM versus operational efficiency, which would be more like Amazon or McDonald's. You know, we do everything at a lower cost and faster logistics live there. And the reason for our dilemma between product innovation and customer intimacy is that I think product innovation comes from a super empathic understanding of the customer. So so to answer your question about, you know, dealing with more legacy oriented customers, we look forward to it.

Daniel Anstandig [00:33:41]:
There are there are customers and partners who have been in the media business for a hundred years. And then we have customers who have been in the media business for a hundred days. And we learn something from both and we create technology that helps both of them in in different ways. And so I I think that's a, you know, it's a great position to to be in, when you can walk in without judgment and just total curiosity. That's kind of step one. And that is a cultural thing. You build that by, really focusing on who you recruit into your company and how you incentivize people.

Jeffrey Stern [00:34:17]:
So you had used a phrase earlier, unearned intelligence that that resonates a bit, but also feels like a a euphemism of sorts for the sheer quantity of information that we we get today. And I'm curious at what point on the the spectrum of unearned intelligence can you, like, distill earned wisdom? How do you think about curation of information, especially as the the quantity of media has just increased so much and seemingly will just continue to increase probably even at a greater velocity.

Daniel Anstandig [00:34:59]:
Well, the I mean, that is that is true. We're gonna have more media, more content, more information than ever. Curation is a job to be done in itself that has existed forever. I think topic expertise and authority matter more than ever now. But here's what I love about the world that we live in today. When there is a recently a few weeks ago there was a plane unfortunate incident at Dulles Airport. There was a plane and helicopter collision. Okay.

Daniel Anstandig [00:35:27]:
Well, in addition to news coverage that we would traditionally understand as you know, capital J journalism about the whole situation, We also saw experienced pilots on their own YouTube channels, analyzing it and talking about it, having a conversation with their audience in a new and different trusted way. We saw podcasters who, you know, were getting interviews and and, having conversations with people about, you know, different aspects or angles related to that, to that whole incident. I think there's just there's more there is more information you can choose in you have, this is a, a buyer's market from a content perspective. You can choose what type of information you want and who you want to consume it from. And so, you know, I think that's great. Let's celebrate that. You know, there's there is going to be more and more a need for ways to curate content and organize and retrieve information. No doubt AI is a huge part of that.

Daniel Anstandig [00:36:26]:
We all seem to be using ChatGPT more than ever as our second brain. And, it couldn't have come at a better time. We were all overwhelmed with constant barrage of information, but I see that as way more an opportunity than a problem.

Jeffrey Stern [00:36:43]:
Of the thousands of companies that that you've now, worked with over the the course of of Futuri, what have been some of the most interesting or or surprising and impactful ways that your products have changed how media companies operate?

Daniel Anstandig [00:37:03]:
Yeah. Thank you for asking that. I mean, I'll start with with, from a sales advertising sales and marketing perspective. We have a system called Top Line that provides consumer intelligence and and sales intelligence to local marketing experts, advertising sellers. And what here's how I've seen Top Line and our systems within top line or features within top line change local businesses. Now instead of going from a media company or from a, podcast and going out to an advertiser and pitching them on advertising with you. What I've seen is a complete change in that thought process to putting the customer first and helping to solve their problem, walking in with information about the community or about their customer that they didn't know. So being able to say, you know, we have consumer research that shows that when people are thinking about buying a car or when they're thinking about going to a local doctor, these are the things they're thinking about.

Daniel Anstandig [00:38:07]:
These are the places they go for information. These are the key questions that they have. Here are some consumer insights that we have about our own audience that might change the way that I can help you grow your business by talking to them in a unique way. That's a very different conversation versus slinging an advertising package at somebody. So from a from an ad sales perspective, I would say that Top Line's mission has been to to change the world of ad sales into solving local business problems and helping local businesses to grow. And that's, you know, that makes for a far more loyal and happy client, you know, too. From a from an information perspective, our topic pulse system, which today, it had humble beginnings in in 2011 from our little Rocky River office. We had a small little office in Rocky River that was, at the time above a burger joint and below a Pilates studio.

Daniel Anstandig [00:39:05]:
So it smelled like a restaurant and was noisy all day long, but it was fun. It was quirky. And we had a blast. We had like 12 people working out of this office in Rocky River and Topic Pulse initially was built to measure engagement of social media topics or of, of news, reporting. How fast are people engaging with different topics on social media? And today, it's turned into a predictive engine that looks at what's trending in a local market and can predict what's going to matter to a local audience. So it's fundamentally changed the newsrooms that that it's, involved in and the news reporting and journalism that it's involved in. And even today, some of our podcast clients will say, look, I go to topic pulse first to understand what my audience cares about today. So I know what to talk about, or where to focus or maybe have some ideas about where to engage on social.

Daniel Anstandig [00:39:57]:
I just, I feel like the the the the way that we've been able to develop these types of technologies is like turning the lights on for our clients and giving them insights or ideas or a perspective that they didn't have before they started using our products, or using our systems. And and once that happens, once we see that like bright eyed moment where they're like, wow, okay. And now I I get how this is helpful intelligence, how it changes, how I can do my job. You know, they never go back. Spark trade, very same experience. When we are, when we're showing prediction scores or, streams of buy and sell signals to an institutional portfolio manager and they're putting it in their own paradigm and saying, okay, well, Now I kinda see differently how I might, you know, trade around a certain position, or how I might use this intelligence to make a different decision today about where I'm gonna focus my research or size my positions differently, that's very rewarding to us because that's, that's a way of kind of using intelligence and using technology to, change the way that legacy businesses operate.

Jeffrey Stern [00:41:04]:
So as you were outlining the really kind of broad set of of product offerings that that you have and and, the different aspects of the business that it affects and really just different problem spaces, I was envisioning that there's a certain opportunity for for you to preferably eat your own dog food. And you mentioned this, like, turn the lights on analogy. I'm curious, were there any of those moments where you turn the lights on for yourself?

Daniel Anstandig [00:41:30]:
And Yeah. Many, many times. Well I would say first of all that in many cases you know where we get so entrenched with our partners and our customers that it's sometimes it's hard the lines even blur between us us versus them. I mean, there's, there are times where we're developing a solution. We take it so personally. We, we talk about our company culture being speed, passion, trust and proactivity. And, and I see that all the time every day. There are there are solutions that I've seen us build for, our customers that, you know, we take so much pride in.

Daniel Anstandig [00:42:08]:
We'll go, you know, we we go try it ourselves and try building things on our own. We have certainly had, scenarios where people who work at Futurity go off and start their own new media oriented ventures. We've had new media oriented ventures that come in, you know, fold into Futurity too. And, yeah I mean yes you have to eat your own talk food for sure. I that saying I always cringe when I when I say that.

Jeffrey Stern [00:42:36]:
It's not it's not my favorite saying.

Daniel Anstandig [00:42:37]:
Yeah it's not the not my favorite saying but it but I believe in it but I believe in it. And yes Yeah, absolutely. We use our own systems all the time to figure out what we're talking about on our own social channels, to know what's trending with our own customers, to communicate with our own customers, to develop mobile apps and, and mobile technologies that we use in our own, partnerships with with, you know, other businesses and so on. So, yes, it's, it's an important tenant of Futur e.

Jeffrey Stern [00:43:09]:
If we were to theorize a bit about, you know, where the world is going, which is is something I imagine you think about often, what do you envision that the, you know, future of media and entertainment looks like? And what is the role that you would like for Futuri to play within it?

Daniel Anstandig [00:43:31]:
Here's what I see happening in media in the next twelve to twenty four months. We're going to see the amount of content, the volume of content multiply, itself. Today, if there are a hundred pieces of content that are, you know, generated in an hour in the, in twenty four months from now, there will be 300 or 400 pieces of content that are generated in that same period of time. We're we're just going to see explosive growth of content creation and of generative content. We're also going to see the creator economy and podcasters and sub stackers and journalists merge with broadcast media and mainstream media. I think we won't even think of the word influencer in the year 02/1930. We'll just think of influencers as part of the media. You know, the media is a very large industry that includes YouTubers and podcasters and Substackers and journalists who are independent and broadcast media like TV, radio, cable, digital publishers, and so on.

Daniel Anstandig [00:44:32]:
So I think we're gonna see, kind of a a a merger of all of those, those types of of companies. We're gonna see new monetization models beyond advertising. The content that you love, you'll probably be expected to subscribe to it and pay for it. You're gonna see micro communities that continue to grow around specific interests. So you have a huge interest in, you know, in cars. You're gonna have even more unique niche micro communities that you can join related to the types of cars you love. You're a musician. I'm a drummer.

Daniel Anstandig [00:45:03]:
I already know there are, you know, micro communities of drummers, percussionists, songwriters, etcetera, that you can be a part of around the world. We're just gonna see more and more of that. And, and so I think the bar that's gonna be raised here from a audience building and from a monetization perspective is if you are creating content but you don't have a community for it, you're just you might as well be using your garden hose in the ocean. Like, your your energy is just dispersing everywhere. You have to build a community, in addition to creating content. And that is what enables you to monetize your content. If you don't have a community, it's really hard to monetize it. So I think this is going to change the mindset around certain legacy media companies who look at themselves as, you know, giant platforms that can just have megaphones.

Daniel Anstandig [00:45:53]:
Yes. That's true. But they also have to create communities in order to monetize, their audience ultimately in the future.

Jeffrey Stern [00:45:59]:
So somewhat notoriously, trust in institutions writ large has been eroded over time. And more anecdotally, to me, it feels like as that trust has waned from places that we have expected it to be, Historically, it's moved to where media is going. Right? The podcasters, the independent storytellers, the people who have been able to build the communities. And I'm curious how you think about what it is to build trust in where media is going.

Daniel Anstandig [00:46:35]:
Radical transparency. Communicating about what you're reporting, why you're reporting it. What is it that made you curious about it, share information proactively, admit mistakes quickly. Of course, you know, journalists are humans, so mistakes will be made, but be open about limitations and challenges. That's what I think from a from a journalism perspective. From a media perspective overall, actually having a community and hearing and addressing concerns from your audience and taking that feedback seriously, Doing, not doing double blind research, but seriously having direct conversations with with your audiences and making visible changes based on that input that builds trust. That's meaningful communication. That's meaningful relationship.

Daniel Anstandig [00:47:21]:
Demonstrating understanding, you know, before acting. You know, I I have seen for many years if we're just talking about news media, there have been studies for many years about trust in media. It's not a 2024 problem or 2025 problem that suddenly, the public seems to have a different level of trust in in media or in journalism. That's been eroding for years. We saw research, we did a study at Futuri with Smith Geiger, which is a major TV news research company. We did a study with them in 2021 where we asked all kinds of questions about broadcast journalism, news, the future of media. And at that time, the one of the first boldest headlines from the study was there's a major trust issue with news and journalism and reporting. So this has been here for a while.

Daniel Anstandig [00:48:11]:
It's, by the way, speaking of jobs to be done that have been here for five thousand years, this is one of them. But I think it's ultimately cured through transparency and through relationship and community and accountability too. When you have a community around your brand, boy, do you have a different level of accountability, you know, to deliver and to make things right when you're when you don't deliver. That's for sure. So, so does that make sense to you, or does that resonate with you too?

Jeffrey Stern [00:48:39]:
It it it certainly makes sense to me. With with that in mind, you know, having painted the picture of directionally maybe where media is going, I just wanna revisit, you know, how you think about what Futurri's role is in that future and and, ultimately, what, you know, what what success looks like? What what does that mean to you? What is the impact that you are are hoping to have?

Daniel Anstandig [00:49:08]:
So Futuri our mission at Futuri is to be the number one technology partner, the most trusted technology partner for any type of media company building or monetizing an audience. And the definition of media company has changed many times even in the sixteen years that we've been in business. Where we started working primarily with broadcast radio and television, today we're working with radio, TV, digital publishers, podcasters, sub stackers, journalists, state government, with public safety. So the, the, media company definition has changed, but the need for building audience and monetizing that audience hasn't changed. And a lot of the ways that you think about going to market in both of those fronts, you know, is a little there may be nuance based on the platform, but it's still that's still generally the same. So we're building the number one most trusted technology company for any media company or really anybody that wants to build and monetize an audience. And, and that's, there's a lot of media companies today. Virtually every company is a media company now.

Daniel Anstandig [00:50:13]:
If you're a media company doing what you're doing as a podcaster, there's, you know, I I think you could walk into most Fortune 500 companies and they would say, yeah, we are also they also think about similar jobs to be done as media companies traditionally have. And so, you know, it's challenging us at Futuri to make our technology, more dynamic and fit different types of media oriented users than we ever have. But that's that's part of what's exciting. Yeah.

Jeffrey Stern [00:50:42]:
It that just, inspired a a thought. I mean, if if we're if every company today is a technology company and every company increasingly is also a media company, I mean, where where are we converging? Like, what what is the where where where is the company of the future? And how how is anyone gonna differentiate?

Daniel Anstandig [00:51:04]:
Well, everybody will differentiate based on who they have in their community and, Communities. Who they have in their community and what type of experience they're creating for that community. I think, products are technology is really just enabling a personalized, sorry, enabling a personalized experience. And so it's it's all about the user journey, the the the ultimate consumer and the experience that they're having.

Jeffrey Stern [00:51:32]:
What are you most excited about right now?

Daniel Anstandig [00:51:36]:
Our company has been involved in machine learning and artificial intelligence for many years. Well before it was kind of the hot thing of the moment with ChatGPT a couple years ago. I have seen I'm I'm really excited about what, machine learning can do in, you know, not only the media and entertainment sector, but also, you know, around banking, around, investment, around investment strategy, portfolio, development. And, and so I I'm, I'm excited about, you know, new applications of data science and I see our teams kind of exploring and going into some really exciting new places. So that that's very energizing to me. I, I also, I know that this is an uncertain business environment and the media industry of course and financial, industries are always being disrupted. But I, I guess I just, I just tick differently. I don't, I don't lay awake at night thinking about problems.

Daniel Anstandig [00:52:44]:
I lay awake at night thinking about opportunities. I never feel like, not never. I mean there are days when I feel like, you know, there's, man there are, there are daunting problems. But I pretty quickly come around to, there are also towering opportunities, extraordinary opportunities. We can do things now Jeffrey that our, parents and grandparents never dreamed would be possible with technology. And that excites that excites me every day. I love the exploration of new ways to build tech, new solutions that we can bring to market, new ways to serve customers. And so, you know, I I feel like we're living at a really unique time, and I'm grateful to be alive in 2025.

Jeffrey Stern [00:53:26]:
That that certainly resonates. I, yep. I feel a kindred way about that and just how crazy it is to be alive at this particular point in time as opposed to any other particular point in time.

Daniel Anstandig [00:53:39]:
You know, if you think about think about this, it's like, whether we like it or not, we are pioneers. You know? Whether we like it or not, we're going to have to find new ways of developing our careers, of investing, of building our communities and raising our kids and all of that. It's all gonna be different. Nobody could, there is no instruction manual that you can buy today that tells you how to live in 2025 or how to build a business in 2025 or that tells you what's gonna happen by 02/1930. You know, Sam Altman had over his desk, he may still have it, a sign that says no one's no one knows what's going to happen next. I mean that's just the truth. No one could prepare you. You can't buy an instruction manual for this.

Daniel Anstandig [00:54:28]:
But what you can do is cultivate your talent, your fortitude, your resilience, your creative thinking, your problem solving mind. That can get you really far. And I feel like that's like the most exciting thing about having an entrepreneurial mindset, you know, in in 2025. For entrepreneurs who are really capital E entrepreneurs, who love to problem solve, who love to go running into burning buildings, this is a great time to be here. You know, if you're, if that scares you, then life is a little scarier. But if you can cultivate that nothing is impossible problem solver within yourself and within others, then this is a a really fun time to be on on planet Earth. So I'm I'm energized and I'd be I'd be remiss if I didn't say, yeah, I'm also, you know, I'm also notably aware of what's happening around us in every business, in every industry, in every country on the planet, today. But I also think there's more opportunity than ever.

Jeffrey Stern [00:55:29]:
Yeah. What what a time to be alive.

Daniel Anstandig [00:55:31]:
It's great. It's great.

Jeffrey Stern [00:55:33]:
Yeah. I I love to do a a brief detour on on investing and SparkTrade and just the, the evolution and and and what that chapter has been like, where it came from, and, where where you see all that going too.

Daniel Anstandig [00:55:50]:
So, where to start on this? Okay. One of my favorite experiences in school growing up was being in the stock club at Beachwood Middle School. We had an advisor, Mr. Overbeck, who was a beloved social studies teacher. In fact, he also owned Overbeck School of Driving, where I learned how to drive in Beachwood, Ohio. And he's retired now, but he, he was well loved in in Beachwood. And he had a passion for the market and for understanding how companies tick and how public markets work and how capital flows. And I remember learning about this and and my, you know, my parents and grandparents were always interested in the market.

Daniel Anstandig [00:56:36]:
Somehow there was always discussion at the dinner table about kind of what's happening today in in public trading and and so on. So I guess I was inclined to to really fall in love with it. My grandfather was, in was an economics major, and, you know, very interested in the market. So we would talk about this a lot growing up. But I remember first learning about really about this at Beachwood Middle School and being in the stock trading club and and just thinking like, wow, this is the coolest thing ever. This is like what democracy looks like. Like capital flowing capital into companies is determining based on your vote of how a company is operating, what you believe the future is. You are voting every minute of the day with your dollars on where you want this country and these companies to go.

Daniel Anstandig [00:57:20]:
And so that was my early exposure to, you know, to this kind of passion. And I, I know it sounds funny to go all the way back to middle school but, but I, I have to say thank you to Mr. Overbeck. I should send him a card or something because he did instill something within me and my grandfather instilled something in me that, I think about today. There's almost this, childlike, you know, passion and and love for America in this way. Over, over many years I became interested in algorithmic trading from basic arbitrage to complex machine learning models. It's increased in sophistication many times over the years in sig in terms of signal processing, using alternative data sources, real time adaptation, you know, of your portfolio based on what's happening in the market. And, you know, most, until, until recently, most of the firms, most of the companies that ever had access to these types of technologies were giant hedge funds.

Daniel Anstandig [00:58:22]:
It was not, this technology was not democratized. And yet, you know, the quants in the market really drive a substantial amount of market movement and price action on a daily basis. So the initial mission with Spark Trade was to democratize some of this machine learning capability and make it available for everyday investors. And so we do have a large number of, you I suppose you would call them retail investors. People, like you and I who, you know, are, you know, perhaps, investing and making decisions about the types of companies we're interested in and supportive of, you know, and buying stocks on a daily basis. We do have retail investors, but we also develop custom portfolios for funds and for portfolio managers who are interested in using these types of this type of alternative data to fuel their own portfolio management. So spark trade has, we, when we started Spark trade, we started with a small group of data scientists and we bought minute by minute trading data from, the, from every publicly traded equity over the last twenty two years. And we did a massive machine learning, R and D exercise.

Daniel Anstandig [00:59:34]:
And still this is kind of the foundation of what we do on a day to day basis at spark spark trade. We, we look at ways to combine fundamental valuation metrics with transient, transient indicators for the market. And we're looking at, publicly traded equities every minute of the day, every every, day the market is open to determine basically what's improperly priced right now. So it's a way of using machine learning to drive a reversal strategy. That's, in layman's terms, there are a few, there are only a few companies today that are publicly traded that are substantially mispriced. There are a large number of companies in the market that are mispriced at a very small, very, minute level. So there are lots of ways that you can run reversal strategies, but really in order to do a reversal strategy where you're catching up on the right price, either on the long side or short side, so you believe a stock is priced, too high for its fundamental value or too low for its fundamental value. You have to use machine learning to process the extraordinary volume of data that would tell you which few companies today are well positioned for a catch up trade.

Daniel Anstandig [01:00:48]:
And that's really what Spark Trade does. It can help, a more, professional portfolio manager to figure out what size of a position they should have in any particular company or to trade around a position they already have conviction on, or we can use our, algorithms and our data to build all kinds of other portfolios. And we've done a number of I've done that for a number of different, companies and and portfolios where we either have helped to, build, certain ETFs or strategies that are built for, and, and managed by a professional portfolio manager where they're trying to come up with the right theme or use AI to somehow drive their strategy. And we've even used it from an academic perspective to, look at consumer intelligence and see how that fits what we're seeing in terms of fundamental and technical indicators in the market on a day to day basis. Where where I see the market going and the the, kind of world of investment is that machine learning and AI driven investments are getting more and more sophisticated. And we are integrating at a, we're integrating fundamental analysis and, and research that would take rooms full of people to generate on a daily, weekly basis. And we're doing that, you know, instantly, with technology. There will be robust strategies that you can use AI to build, in the coming, you know, in the coming years.

Daniel Anstandig [01:02:20]:
There's so there's so much, this is becoming a really, you know, exciting field. There's so much that you can do today with technology, with a solid investor mindset, a value driven investor mindset to bolster your earnings and to make better decisions. And so, it's been a very rewarding experience to be a part of the data science team at StarTree.

Jeffrey Stern [01:02:42]:
Yeah. That that is quite fascinating. For what it's worth, my my interest and and, path to investing also originated in middle school.

Daniel Anstandig [01:02:53]:
Did it really?

Jeffrey Stern [01:02:54]:
It was the stock market game. It's similar kinda thing.

Daniel Anstandig [01:02:57]:
Yes. Yep. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Now how did your how did you do in the game?

Jeffrey Stern [01:03:02]:
Well, by by truly by chance, you know, the monkey throwing darts at the dartboard, I I I did end up winning for New York State. And, that experience of getting to then go to the New York Stock Exchange and see what the trading floor was like, that and that is kind of what inspired my whole interest in understanding business because I I wanted to understand how it was possible that I ended up winning this thing when I knew absolutely nothing about what I was doing. And so, yeah, then I started with Ben Graham, but I I ended up just reading a lot about investing and, I mean, that's basically the how I think about where my whole interest in business came from.

Daniel Anstandig [01:03:41]:
That's pretty that's pretty cool. I mean, you know, that's a that's a great, for any for any middle school teacher or administrator watching this, and hearing you say that, that that's a great testament to amazing teachers, you know, who put these things in our paths early, in in our early years. I really think that's where our passions come from that we live out in our adulthood. You know, it it all starts there. A teacher that shows up, you know, it's not the it's not the game itself that that probably got you into it. It's all the excitement around it and the passion that really communicated. Yeah.

Jeffrey Stern [01:04:14]:
Yeah. No. And I'm I'm very grateful for that. So, I mean, there's a million more things I could ask you about. One one that comes to mind is you you mentioned kind of in passing that you are a drummer, which I I feel is, is a humble assessment of yourself there as as from the outside, it seems you're, you're quite actually an accomplished musician and songwriter and related set of, of titles within the umbrella of music. What is, has music taught you about entrepreneurship?

Daniel Anstandig [01:04:46]:
Well, well, thank you. First, thank you for listening to Rhythm and Truth and to some of, some of the music production that I've done. What can music teach us about entrepreneurship? Entrepreneurship? There's so much. First of all, I mean, as a drummer, timing is everything.

Jeffrey Stern [01:05:11]:
Is it yeah. That's good. Yep.

Daniel Anstandig [01:05:13]:
Finding, you know, finding the right the right cadence for growth. I'll tell you one thing I've learned about music and about life, you know, over the years is Yeah. That, you know, when you're a musician and you're you're playing drums or piano or guitar, It's a very rare human. It's a very rare human who can have their mind wander into other things and still sound good. It's a real time playing an instrument gives you a real time feedback loop about how tolerant you are of mind wandering. Because if you sit down at a drum set and you're really in the groove, all you're thinking about is the groove. I mean, yeah, you're also, you know, you have situational awareness and you're, you're connected into the rest of the band. Or when you're thinking about where you're going and so on.

Daniel Anstandig [01:06:05]:
But you're certainly not thinking about lunch tomorrow and, you know, whether, you know, whether, whether, something, you know, that happened twenty four hours ago or twenty four years ago was the right thing or whatever. No. You are absolutely in the moment. And, there is a great wisdom that comes with that from a musician, musicianship perspective. I, you know, I think what I've learned about, about life working in, you know, and having the opportunity to produce other artists or, you know, produce music as really, it started really as a hobby and something that I just love to do. I grew up playing music and Yeah. Loving music and, you know, around radio and so on. But what I've learned about, about collaborating with other artists too, is that creative people who have a lot of passion, have, there's there's, there's a lot to be said for getting people with very different backgrounds and very different ways of thinking about things into the same song, you know, into the same project, with a with a clear understanding about what they're creating but coming from different places in life.

Daniel Anstandig [01:07:20]:
The the more different my collaborators have been I think the more magical and unique the end result is. And that's, I've experienced that around music. I've experienced that around technology, and around finance. And so, you know, I I think that's that's probably a a good life lesson that I I guess came to me mostly through music, but it applies everywhere.

Jeffrey Stern [01:07:48]:
That that was beautifully expressed. I couldn't have hoped for a better answer. Wow. That was awesome.

Daniel Anstandig [01:07:53]:
What what about you? I mean, creativity and music and, what's what's your view on that and what you learn about entrepreneurship?

Jeffrey Stern [01:08:01]:
Yeah. Well, I I am the the one in my family who is not blessed with with any particular musical talent. But I I have grown up with a great appreciation for music, and, I feel, you know, my role is to appreciate the creativity of of other people. And I think there is a role for that or at least that, you know, that's the story that I tell myself.

Daniel Anstandig [01:08:22]:
Absolutely. Yeah.

Jeffrey Stern [01:08:23]:
But I but I I I have thought a lot about the the intersection of the artist mentality and the entrepreneur's mentality, because I I think they're very similar, in that the the kinds of singular focus that they require and just the the, commitment to what it is that they're doing often at the expense of of other things is, you know, just there's there's an abundance of of passion that that to me is, gives me energy. I love spending time with artists and with entrepreneurs, and I I've and as a consequence of that, I I've thought about, you know, what is it that is similar about those two kinds of people?

Daniel Anstandig [01:09:07]:
Yeah. There's definitely vision, creativity. There's a, you know, there's a relentlessness. If you're a if you're a, an entrepreneur, you're a professional musician, you know, you have to be relentless so, yeah. So I mean, there's, that creativity and vision. I think I think, experience in music has made me a better leader and a better collaborator and more understanding and a better listener, frankly. You can't be a good musician and not be a good listener. You've gotta listen in between the lines.

Daniel Anstandig [01:09:41]:
You've gotta listen for the listen for the full context or you don't get it. And so, you know, there's a lot of life lessons. I'm a huge I'm very passionate about music education and, huge, supporter of music education. My mom was a music therapist growing up. My dad, a physician. And so I've just, I grew up with a respect for people who, use music in a healing way too.

Jeffrey Stern [01:10:06]:
Yeah. And, again, be beautifully said. Well, what what do you feel is, is unsaid? Is there something that you wish I had asked you about?

Daniel Anstandig [01:10:16]:
Early on in this conversation, I shared with you that I personally moved to Austin, and we've been growing our Austin contingent for Futuri and Spark Trade and so on. And, you know, I, I just, I wanna touch on that because as a, as an entrepreneur, who started and developed several businesses in Cleveland, Ohio, I just wanna share with other Cleveland Entrepreneurs or maybe somebody who's just starting a business right now that I do believe that Cleveland is all that you make of it. And I don't want you to hear that, you know, a certain company or our company or anybody, who has diversified or grown beyond Cleveland or even those who have started things in Cleveland and moved elsewhere is a vote against the Cleveland market because, and Cleveland or Ohio in general as a as fertile soil for entrepreneurship because I do believe it's a really wonderful place to live. I believe that you can have access to people and to collaborators in a unique way in Cleveland that you may not have for Columbus, you know, that you may not have elsewhere, Dayton, etcetera. It's a really diverse state. And I believe that Ohio is a staple of the American economy and many amazing entrepreneurs have grown and developed businesses in Ohio. And so I want to encourage you, you know if you're starting a business in Ohio, I want to encourage you that you're in the right place. It's all that you make it.

Daniel Anstandig [01:11:52]:
And you know the more that you can, embrace the the marketplace and embrace the people in Ohio who can help you to get where you need to go, the more successful you'll be. There's a great academic community, great health care community. There's, there's a lot to love.

Jeffrey Stern [01:12:11]:
Well, that's a it's a perfect segue to book in the conversation here with with our traditional closing question, which is about Cleveland. And it's it's for a hidden gem, something, that other people may not know about, but perhaps they should.

Daniel Anstandig [01:12:27]:
Okay. Well, I would say Cleveland Orchestra's Severance Music Center rehearsals. Oh, wow. The, they That's another one. They're occasionally open to the public dress rehearsals. You have to kind of hunt for them, but if you go to, Severance Music Center, look for the dress rehearsals, you can get a really sweet behind the scenes look at one of the world's best orchestras. And, it's it's a unique and special experience. So, yes, I would say Cleveland Orchestra's secret but not so secret dress rehearsals, check them out.

Jeffrey Stern [01:13:00]:
That's a that's a perfect one. Well, I just wanna thank you, you know, for for taking the time for, sharing your your thoughts and reflections. Lee Lee had mentioned that you had a a certain wisdom beyond your years, and it it's more than apparent to me that you have earned quite a lot of wisdom along the way and and are very succinct and and clear in your thinking. And I I I appreciate, you you know, just you you you coming on and and sharing all your your reflections.

Daniel Anstandig [01:13:31]:
Well, thank you for this opportunity, and and thank you for the opportunity to, have an open conversation together. And congratulations on what you're doing with the Ohio Fund and how you're growing and, and how how this podcast has been growing in popularity too. I think it's it's important for, for Cleveland and Ohio to have, you know, really strong advocates like you, Jeffrey. So thank you.

Jeffrey Stern [01:13:56]:
Appreciate it. If if people had anything they wanted to follow-up with you about, or learn more or, you know, otherwise, where where would you direct them?

Daniel Anstandig [01:14:07]:
Definitely, you can find me on LinkedIn, Daniel Anstandig or at anstandig dot com. It's anstandig.com, and would Perfect.

Jeffrey Stern [01:14:16]:
Awesome. Well, thank you again.

Daniel Anstandig [01:14:18]:
Thank you very much.

Jeffrey Stern [01:14:21]:
That's all for this week. Thank you for listening. We'd love to hear your thoughts on today's show. So if you have any feedback, please send over an email to jeffrey@layoftheland.fm, or find us on Twitter at pod lay of the land or at stern f a, j e f e. If you or someone you know would make a good guest for our show, please reach out as well and let us know. And if you enjoy the podcast, please subscribe and leave a review on iTunes or on your preferred podcast player. Your support goes a long way to help us spread the word and continue to bring the Cleveland Founders and builders we love having on the show. We'll be back here next week at the same time to map more of the land.

Jeffrey Stern [01:14:59]:
The Lay of the Land podcast was developed in collaboration with the Up Company LLC. At the time of this recording, unless otherwise indicated, we do not own equity or other financial interests in the company which appear on the show. All opinions expressed by podcast participants are solely their own and do not reflect the opinions of any entity which employs us. This podcast is for informational purposes only and should not be relied upon as a basis for investment decisions. Thank you for listening and we'll talk to you next week.